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[Org]

I say aye to extending drawbridge

[Emmanovi]

Kat, however, has been removed, which means we have one slot open for any lurkers who wish to participate in our robust democracy of freedom and candy.

{Come to Equalvoice! We have +cat tallow biscuits+. :3}

[Org]

What about the issue of using cats as food?

[Hilscher]

Thank you for your votes, Goron and Org. Lego, you've only voiced opinion on a few things.

{Voting Reposted}

[LegoLord]

Well, I really support anything I haven't actively talked about.  So aye to anything I haven't already been marked as having voted for.

[Hilscher]

What about the issue of using cats as food?

What about the issue of breathing air? It's a given that we will be gnawing on the adorable little felines, so no need to bring it to a vote! Mmm. Kitten meat. So tender.

Well, I really support anything I haven't actively talked about.  So aye to anything I haven't already been marked as having voted for.

Yeah, as I said with Org, that doesn't really fly. You have to specifically say what you vote for and which way you vote or it's an automatic abstain. -_-

[LegoLord]

Okay, aye to trade goods being made and building something around the well (which I would suggest we just make fairly small and expandable).

[Hilscher]

Okay, aye to trade goods being made and building something around the well (which I would suggest we just make fairly small and expandable).

Thank you for your votes.

---

A vote in favor of the well building brings us to our second stalemate. Now, we have 36 hours before voting concludes, so I'd like to pressure you guys into discussing the stalemated items especially.

For myself, I highly recommend the plans presented in Fig 10.2 (second image on thread page ten). That is, a small inner courtyard built off of the tower foundation that encloses the well, the trade depot, and channels enemies into it via the trap gauntlet. We've already agreed to construct a trap gauntlet eventually, and this would be a good way to incorporate it. I definitely see the  points of it being obsolete in a year, but that's only if you're just thinking about it as a well. It's not like we're not going to create our indoor cistern with a fortified wall keeping delicious cold water in and evil frogmen out within a year or two, but it's more than a well. It's something we need anyway. It's not a no-value added make-work project. Just take a look at 10.2 and consider changing your vote. If you don't change your vote, it won't happen. Which, perhaps is fine since we're already working on our outer walls. But a trap gauntlet should be put up soon and this will expedite that.

[Lav]

Well, it seems that the majority decided to dig a tunnel to the brook in order to flood the second farm.

As for the building around the well, I do not see a reason to change my vote.

Finally about extending the drawbridge. I do support the idea. But please keep in mind that the earth below the bridge must be excavated prior to bridge construction (I assume everyone already knows this, but just in case).

[Goron]

--Create pumping system, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav, Org
---Against: Grail, Legon, Goron
---Stalemate

I will remain opposed for the moment, but I will indicate my vote could sway for the sake of closing the issue. I feel a pumping system is necessary and essential - eventually. I am just not so sure that right now is the appropriate time. At this moment, what all use would it serve? It sits outside any planned walls (I am looking at fig 10.2, that's the pump plan in question, correct?), it disrupts the aesthetic landscape by crossing the 'entrance path' from the south, not to mention having to step over pipes everytime I walk that will may get annoying.
In my mind, I feel we could do better waiting some seasons, until the true need for a pumping system becomes essential- then put the time and effort to build it underground, or one z level above ground, so as to not be in the way.


As for the wall around the well, I still say nay. Work done above ground is wasted work, in my opinion. I concede to the need for defensive structures and constructions above ground and such, but a well is in no way defensive.


EDIT: also, be sure to update the DFMA map as much as possible:-)

[Lav]

EDIT: also, be sure to update the DFMA map as much as possible:-)

Fair point. Updated.

[Emmanovi]

{I apologise for my occasional lack of posting, the automatic inform-of-new-posts doesn't seem to want to send me the relevant emails.}

I like the look of Fig. 10.2, and approve of it. In terms of a pumping system, the plan in my mind was to create the basis for a system of pumping water from the brook to, say, a cistern or pool, from which it could be distributed to where it is needed in the fortress, which currently would appear to be the farm. Essentially, by using a pump to supply water for irrigation, we can build on and adapt the current system to make an aqueduct to lead to a cistern or other at a later date. Hence my support.

In terms of those wondering about above-ground defense, I must vouch my support for it. If the enemy can be halted before they enter the fortress, they are further away from civilians. Protecting an above-ground area also gives us access to above-ground resources.

Consider also that a marksdwarves can use above-ground defenses as cover to take pot-shots at attackers whilst reducing risk to themselves. Security is an important aspect of any fortress, and here at Equalvoice we cannot make an exception. We don't know what foul forces of darkness might be in the area. The earlier we get some defences down, the better prepared we are. Being caught out is not an entertaining venture.

[Hilscher]

--Create pumping system, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav, Org
---Against: Grail, Legon, Goron
---Stalemate

I will remain opposed for the moment, but I will indicate my vote could sway for the sake of closing the issue. I feel a pumping system is necessary and essential - eventually. I am just not so sure that right now is the appropriate time. At this moment, what all use would it serve? It sits outside any planned walls (I am looking at fig 10.2, that's the pump plan in question, correct?), it disrupts the aesthetic landscape by crossing the 'entrance path' from the south, not to mention having to step over pipes everytime I walk that will may get annoying.
In my mind, I feel we could do better waiting some seasons, until the true need for a pumping system becomes essential- then put the time and effort to build it underground, or one z level above ground, so as to not be in the way.


As for the wall around the well, I still say nay. Work done above ground is wasted work, in my opinion. I concede to the need for defensive structures and constructions above ground and such, but a well is in no way defensive.


EDIT: also, be sure to update the DFMA map as much as possible:-)

The pump issue is kind of obsolete, being that we have essentially already decided to tunnel to the brook instead, and unless someone is opposed to letting water drip down and see if there's enough, that tunneling will only be done if there isn't enough water. Personally I believe there will be.

Goron is right in that there will eventually be a need for a pumping system and aqueduct, but that time is not now. The pumping system is redundant at this point, and not comprehensive enough to be scalable towards a better version.

As for the tower, look, you've got to think in three dimensions. We could have ground level openings on all four points of the tower, but we have outer walls anyway. That means that most of our foraging is going to be to the north and east anyway, see? We can build catwalks with siege lock-down bridges over the walls, and fortfied battlement-barracks with marksdwarf squads on 24/7 alert, ballistae, trap gauntlets, and all that good stuff. If you're not voting for 10.2, then suggest or add improvements to it. The fact is we've already decided on building a tower above our entrance, and our outer walls. If you want ground level compass points doors, we can do that. You seem to be assuming dwarves are going to leave through the gauntlet. That is not the case. For now they're going to be leaving to the north, across the bridge we already have. Next season, we can add a second level to the tower and a catwalk exit to the east, especially, where it changes biomes and we have lots of trees and plants and animals. We need to build our gauntlet soon, and this well provides the two solid flanks between which we can build it. The opposition to the well building only comes from viewing it as soley a well building.

[Hilscher]

Voting is now closed, and the votes have been resolved.

Old Business:

-Nullify Goron, seconded.
---In Favor: 3 Votes Changed.
---Against: Goron, Lav, Grail, Emmanovi
---Failed.

-Nullify Kat, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Emmanovi, Kat
---Succeeded.


New Business:

-Irrigate and Construct Second Farm, obsolete.
--Let water drip down first and see if it is enough, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Emmanovi
---Succeeded.
--Create tunnel and reservoir from the brook, seconded.
---In Favor: Legon, Grail, Goron, Org
---Against: Lav
---Succeeded.
--Create pumping system, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav, Org
---Against: Grail, Legon, Goron
---Stalemate, Failed.

-Create Walls, obsolete.
--Channel out the brook to complete walling off process, moved.
---Failed.
--Instead, build the walls out to the hill on the west side of the brook as per original plans, moved.
---Failed.
----Extend the drawbridge, seconded. (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail, Goron, Org, Lav
---Succeeded.
----Channel moat around the outer walls, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail, Lav, Goron, Org (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---Succeeded.

--Create causeway for trade depot, moved.
---Failed.

--Create small building around the well, seconded. (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail, Legon
---Against: Lav, Goron, Org
---Stalemate, Failed.
----...With stairs to below, moved. (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---Failed.


--Create Tradegoods for Autumn, seconded.
---In Favor: Lav, Grail, Emmanovi, Legon
---Succeeded.
----Focus on production of Mechanisms and Wine as Trade Goods, moved.
---Failed.
----Create Metal Tradegoods, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav, Org
---Against: Goron, Grail
---Succeeded.

--Smooth out lower bedrooms, move furniture down to them, smooth out upper bedrooms, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Emmanovi
---Against: Goron, Org
---Stalemate, Failed.

--Dig out and smooth out meeting hall, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Lav, Goron, Org
---Succeeded.

--Dig out an office, obsolete.
----Use one of the bedrooms as a temporary office, seconded.
---In Favor: Lav, Grail, Emmanovi, Goron
---Succeeded.

--Create a waterwheel, gear assembly, pumps, etc to prepare the waterfall for activation using the bucket method described on thread page ten. Moved
---Failed.

Most of these are straight forward, but once again, the vote to wait and see if water drips down did succeed, so no digging the tunnel until such time as it becomes apparent that our second farm will not be fully irrigated.

We have authorization from previous votes to build the foundation of a tower, and to work on our outer walls. Probably some other stuff, too. It occurs to me only now in hindsight we should have voted on what to trade for this season. I suggest raw materials, especially lumber, but also metal and ore. Food and drink not bad either.

Happy Autumning!

[Emmanovi]

I shall get cracking then! Just a quick question... what's the simplest way to get images and screenshots onto these here fora? I must admit I've never had cause to do it before.