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[Katsuun]

Wait, am I still here? You can convert Kat for Goron, I don't mind.

[Hilscher]

(You're still in the game, and the vote to remove you, or Kat for that matter, will not resolve for another 24 hours. If you want to play, I'm sure you can convince Lav and Emmanovi to change their votes.)

[Lav]

2Goron. If you are back - welcome. :-)

Grail IIRC assigned Martian's dwarf to me, not yours.

[Goron]

Ok. Well, I will be able to get back into the swing of things now. Sorry about the disappearance, as I said, moving ended up being a lot more difficult than I expected:-)

[Hilscher]

The time for new motions has passed, and will now be closed. Forty eight more hours for the resolution of set motions, or until a 2/3rds majority vote to adjourn the preceedings and begin the Autumn quarter.

We have outstanding votes in contention, from Goron being retained or not, to the creation of a minor pumping system, to how the layout of our above ground area should be - several of which were motioned but not seconded and so have now failed. We have three people being active in this democracy, Lego, and Goron, if you want to play, then get involved. That is why I have not changed my vote to nullify Goron's dwarf, because I don't think people change. I think this trend will continue. You're still technically in this game, so vote and show me you're actually in the game if you want to convince me. The vote to remove you will conclude in a few hours, and no one has changed their vote thus far. If I change mine, you stay, so I guess it's me you have to win over.

EDIT: We should also elect our next chair person now, so that they are ready when the next quarter is set to begin. In an attempt to pass power, I nominate Emmanovi as he is active, responsible, and not me. As he is also set to execute the autumn season, I suppose it still sets a precedent that ties the chairman and executor together, but it's better than a precedent of one permanent chairman.

Question: Should we eliminate the seconding system? I can foresee it hindering our democratic process. There is some logic to it - if motioning is allowed right up to the end, instead of having a cut-off, then someone could just make a motion right before voting ends, and then there's no way to handle that vote as anything but a successful one. Seconding has its uses in preventing such abuses. But we could keep seconding and remove the cut-off. Of course, that still allows conspiracy of two or more people to force illegitimate legislature through. A cut-off is also important in that it gives enough time for everyone who wants to participate that chance. I'd like some input, though, as I don't like how so many motions failed which I feel really needed some discussion.

Perhaps 24 hours for motions, 24 hours for seconding, and 24 hours for voting? That way, voting gets 72 hours, seconding gets 48 hours, and the motions get 24, all within the same time frame. I think the problem here was that the cut-off for motions and seconding was the same, but I'd still like to hear thoughts.

{Votes Moved to Last Page ATOTW}

[Emmanovi]

I concur with the suggestion to use an empty bedroom as an office for now. I'll place tentative support in a meeting hall too, so long as there is time to get this done in the season.

Goron, I do see what Grail here is saying - the lack of participation has been cited as a cause for this nullification. Seeing as Grail has pointed out he will change his vote if participation is shown, I'm afraid I shan't change my vote.

In terms of our meeting and voting system, your last suggestion, Grail, seems most logical, and I certainly would vote to use it in future. I disagree with removing seconding, as there is too much scope for motions to pass through the net, as it were. A cut-off for motioning and then one for voting could solve this, but I think I prefer the 72-hour idea. Maybe because it's a set of three.

I don't mind being the chairdwarf for the next meeting, but I won't second Grail's suggestion nor vote for myself unless no-one else wishes to take on this responsibility. I just feel that, seeing as this is a democracy, power and responsibility should be shared. That said, I will take the job happily if there are no contentions.

[Goron]

In the proper Democratic method I will protest Emmanovi's vote to nullify me. I bring quote A as evidence for my cause:

I conditionally second the motions, given that they have been PMed.

I at no time received a single PM from anyone about anything- much less a PM regarding my lack of activity

--Create channel and reservoir from the brook, seconded.
---In Favor: Legon, Grail
---Against: Lav

Goron votes aye

--Create pumping system, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav
---Against: Grail, Legon

Goron votes nay. At the moment it is non-value add work.

----Channel moat around the outer walls, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail, Lav (figs 10.1, 10.2)

Goron votes aye. Defense is the best defense

--Create small building around the well, seconded. (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail
---Against: Lav

Goron votes nay. When the appropriate time comes I will propose an indoor, underground well. Any work to wall this well in question will become obsolete.

--Create Tradegoods for Autumn, seconded.
---In Favor: Lav, Grail, Emmanovi
----Focus on production of Mechanisms and Wine as Trade Goods, moved.
---Failed.
----Create Metal Tradegoods, seconded.
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Lav

I am a little confused on this discussion... maybe I missed the post where it came up. As it stands now, what is the status of the 'Focus production of Mechanisms and Wine as Trade Goods'?
I vote aye for that. I vote nay for Metal Tradegoods...

--Smooth out lower bedrooms, move furniture down to them, smooth out upper bedrooms, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Emmanovi

Goron votes nay. The work is non-value ad at the moment. Smooth rock just covers the beauty of rough rock.

--Dig out and smooth out meeting hall, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Lav

Goron votes aye. the meeting hall should be 'smooth' to impress guests...

[Org]

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No
Yes

In that order

[Emmanovi]

In the proper Democratic method I will protest Emmanovi's vote to nullify me. I bring quote A as evidence for my cause:

I conditionally second the motions, given that they have been PMed.

I at no time received a single PM from anyone about anything- much less a PM regarding my lack of activity

I apologise. I got the impression that all the relevant parties had been informed via PM. I'll gladly change my vote to retain you.

[Lav]

Sorry for not stating it explicitly, but I do change my vote to nullify Goron to No. If he's in the game, it's fine by me.

[LegoLord]

I appologize, when I said "channel" earlier, I was visualizing a tunnel, rather than a channel.  I have this bad habit of calling anything with liquid flowing through it a channel.

[Hilscher]

Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
No
Yes

In that order

So helpful.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not going to adjudicate these votes until I know specifically which things you are voting yes to and no to. Sorry, but vagueness is not helpful to me in my task.

[Org]

The things Goron voted on. Sorry for vagueness.

Also, I am not getting p.m.s

[Hilscher]

The things Goron voted on. Sorry for vagueness.

Also, I am not getting p.m.s

Because I can be reasonably sure what you're voting on now, I'm going to adjudicate them, but in the future please restate the issue you're voting on as you're voting on it. (ex. 'I vote aye on the kittens are adorable referendum, but nay on the kittens are delicious referendum.')

---

Goron, you met my requirement, so that means everyone has changed their vote to not banish you from happyland castle. Real life always comes first and we can certainly appreciate the hard work that goes into moving, but please make sure you remain active or make it explicitly clear that you won't be posting for a while if something like this comes up again... a long, long time from now. Kat, however, has been removed, which means we have one slot open for any lurkers who wish to participate in our robust democracy of freedom and candy.

[Goron]

I have had a chance to look more closely at the issues I did not enter votes on yet. Here they are (I am pretty sure I am voted on all issues now):

EDIT: We should also elect our next chair person now, so that they are ready when the next quarter is set to begin. In an attempt to pass power, I nominate Emmanovi as he is active, responsible, and not me. As he is also set to execute the autumn season, I suppose it still sets a precedent that ties the chairman and executor together, but it's better than a precedent of one permanent chairman.

Goron votes aye

Question: Should we eliminate the seconding system? I can foresee it hindering our democratic process. There is some logic to it - if motioning is allowed right up to the end, instead of having a cut-off, then someone could just make a motion right before voting ends, and then there's no way to handle that vote as anything but a successful one. Seconding has its uses in preventing such abuses. But we could keep seconding and remove the cut-off. Of course, that still allows conspiracy of two or more people to force illegitimate legislature through. A cut-off is also important in that it gives enough time for everyone who wants to participate that chance. I'd like some input, though, as I don't like how so many motions failed which I feel really needed some discussion.

Goron has decided to abstain. I've mostly missed out on the seconding process, so I do not know the pain and/or joy of it.

Perhaps 24 hours for motions, 24 hours for seconding, and 24 hours for voting? That way, voting gets 72 hours, seconding gets 48 hours, and the motions get 24, all within the same time frame. I think the problem here was that the cut-off for motions and seconding was the same, but I'd still like to hear thoughts.

This seems reasonable... but again, see above.

-Irrigate and Construct Second Farm, obsolete.
--Let water drip down first and see if it is enough, seconded.
---In Favor: Grail, Emmanovi

Goron abstains. I care little for farming matters.

----Extend the drawbridge, seconded. (figs 10.1, 10.2)
---In Favor: Emmanovi, Grail

Goron votes aye. I reviewed the plans more closely and understand the reason for this now.

--Dig out an office, obsolete.
----Use one of the bedrooms as a temporary office, seconded.
---In Favor: Lav, Grail, Emmanovi

Goron votes aye. I think I just accidently missed this one last time around.