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[Emmanovi]

Towards the end of Spring, the dwarves had gathered above ground and were discussing their main common interest: politics. Leaders, rulers, martial law and hereditary succession were all debated, discussing sometimes the principles, sometimes that which related directly to their new fortress. Eventually Emmanovi stepped forward.

"Ladies and gentledwarves, debate is a cornerstone of our democracy. However, I feel that at these early stages, our time would be more productively spent discussing our plans for the next season. I've just been down to the food stores, and there's the most ungodly stench eminating from some rotting corpse or other. I think we need a dedicated refuse area, sealed off with a double door system. The double doors will help ensure the miasmatic clouds do not escape, and we should situate this pile away from the busy areas of the fort - except, of course, any crafting workshops, where the bones and shells can be put to good use."

He glanced around at the dwarves seated around him.

"And another thing - just look where you're all sitting! This is our workshop space, out in the cold open air. This is no place for the average dwarf! If we were attacked, these would be quickly lost and we would be trapped inside. These should be relocated underground at some point, well out of harms way. I believe Grail drew some plans - they look exceedingly practical, they should save a lot of effort in the long run."

Then he shuffled his feet and looked nervously around.

"And unless I'm very much mistaken, something knows we're here. I don't know what - I don't recall anything on the maps of the area - but I would very much like to get some above ground walls sorted out for defense. For now, just some walls around this area between these two hills would be good, as Legon suggested. Once we have this basic barrier, we can build up later to a second level with fortifications and suchlike, maybe even towers..."

Emmanovi's eyes glazed over as thoughts of military companies valiantly defending strongly built walls clouded his mind, prominent amongst them a stalwart, brave figure wearing green-yellow robes, with the moon shining down upon him. Shaking his head, however, he cleared these thoughts and turned to the task of democracy.

"Anyway, what does everyone else think?"

[LegoLord]

We don't need any doors if we split the refuse pile into an above ground stockpile that only accpets items that can rot and a subterranean stockpile than only accepts usable refuse (bones, fresh hides, skulls, shells).  Aside from that, I agree.

[Emmanovi]

We don't need any doors if we split the refuse pile into an above ground stockpile that only accpets items that can rot and a subterranean stockpile than only accepts usable refuse (bones, fresh hides, skulls, shells).  Aside from that, I agree.

Personally, I'd rather not have to go outside to dispose of such refuse. In the middle of a siege, I'm not having anyone pop outside to chuck a corpse into a little pile only to get skewered. I'm fine with separate stockpiles, but please let's be careful about the outside.

[LegoLord]

I meant within the walls, sorry.  But still above ground.  Hopefully by the time it is necessary to order people underground we will have some stuff between the entrance dancing dwarves and our foes.

[Hilscher]

Now about this game. I planned this as a community fortress. However, as I mentioned in one of my PMs, I do not mind this game switching to succession (or just pass the game to another game master) if the majority of players vote for it. Hope that's clear enough. Until that vote is suggested and passed though, I consider this a community fort.

(Thanks for the clarification.)

---

"Efficiency is key fer both aethetics an' the more obvious savins in time an' energy. I'd like ter see the above ground dedicated ter harvesting wood, tradin', an' military defense. I would be more than willin' to vote in favor of two smaller refuse piles so that those getting bones will not have ter suffer the indignity of trudgin' through miasma, but I oppose havin' one up top in the open air as well. Even within the confines of our walls. We should make room fer a Trade depot and a gauntlet of stonefall traps that will make us able to withstand any siege short of the very demons of legend pourin' through. I'd like the one entrance to our fortress ter go through a barracks where at least three to four dwarves will be stationed once we grow a bit in numbers. Any thieves will be quickly caught or repelled if they try ter sneak through a close quarters barracks filled with sparrin' dwarves. Security is also key, and I believe that the plans I have suggested provide that security without compromising our efficiency in trade or gathering lumber."

(Left: A picture of surface fortifications, Right: unfinished plans for a meeting hall and interior well)

"'Owever, security is, as of right now, a secondary key priority. Gettin' workshops inside is the number one task for this season, as well as floodin' our second farm and continuin' work on our waterfall. Fer the most part, I am in agreement with our esteemed hunter, Emmanovi. That, 'owever, also proves troublesome in that it is difficult to ascertain - beyond general consensus, which is vague and sloppy - what exactly each Dwarf is votin' in favor of. We need some system of itemizin' and prioritizin' each Dwarf's votes; an' unfortunately I feel I'm a bit better at drawing rough diagrams in wax than I am at matters of bureaucracy. Does anyone have any suggestions?"

[Emmanovi]

The simplest suggestion I can think of is a running list of proposals or conflicts which is updated regularly with the number of votes each side, at least for now when there are only seven voting dwarves.

Example:

Item #7 - Refuse storage: Above-ground or underground refuse pile for rotting items
Above-ground: 1, Legon
Underground: 2, Emmanovi, Grail

(Optional below:)
Undecided: 4, Voksdon, Goron, Kat, Treebeard
Abstaining: 0

{EDIT: Hit the wrong button, post instead of preview, didn't I?}

In cases where it's not one thing versus another, votes could be recorded as "Yea"/"Nay". This way, we can keep track of who wishes what, and how many for each. It's a bit laborious if there are many such items, but I'm happy to record it.

Of course, this system should technically be voted on, which begs the question of which system to use for voting upon it... but I'm not in the mood for logical recursive self-reference today.

{EDIT 2: I can't count.}

[Katsuun]

I agree with Legon, two split refuse piles would remove the need for additional doors. As long as we keep the second pile within the walls... perhaps in a division separate from the rest of the above ground fortress, assessable only by staircase from the underground. So it can be safely dumped even if a siege has made it all the way inside the courtyard, or whatever that walled area is going to end up becoming.

Think about it, if we don't have to worry about rotting, assuming were ever rebuilding our stockpiles and workshops, we can stick our shells and hides next to the needed workshops. Makes everything easier and faster.

{EDIT:Vote}

So, Yea to two separate piles.

[Emmanovi]

In the interests of speeding up our processes, I'm going to start using this system of tracking votes. Please, if any dwarf has any objections, concerns or comments, voice them - this is a democracy after all!

Item #7 - Refuse storage: Above-ground or underground refuse pile for rotting items

Above-ground: 3, Legon, Kat, Treebeard
Underground: 2, Emmanovi, Grail

Undecided: 2, Voksdon, Goron
Abstaining: 0

(Smallest majority number of votes is currently 4)

[Emmanovi]

So, Yea to two separate piles.

As far as I'm aware, the point we're undecided on is not whether to have separate piles, but whether the one for rotting items should be inside or outside.

[Org]

Above

[Hilscher]

I did not expect to need to make a lengthy argument about this, but I'm troubled by the prospects of dedicating resources on an illogically expensive and inefficient system of refuse management. It's not so much a problem now, but it will be in the future as our proud fortress blossoms in size and might. So here is my argument, to attempt to sway my comrades. Should we really be hauling rotting corpses up untold staircases and down hallways, when we could just as easily, not to mention more efficiently have a below-ground dump site close at hand? It's not like two doors is a huge investment. Doors are cheap, and time is not. Time which will be wasted forever by hauling things to an above ground site. Hundreds of dwarfhours could be lost every year to inefficient planning. Not to mention the aesthetics of a heap of stinking mess that our traders will pass. Above ground space is at a premium whereas below ground space is infinite. Furthermore, and perhaps most importantly, it is inevitable that we will create a below ground dumpsite in the future regardless of what we do now. When Equalvoice grows, we will expand and efficiency will be even more important than it is now. Double doors completely eliminate the risk of unpleasant miasma stinking up our fortress, so there is absolutely no reason to vote in favor of an above ground dumpsite. I would be willing to tolerate a temporary above ground site for expediency's sake, but now you're talking about unsightly renovations including a staircase to an above ground site accessable only from underground? How is that more efficient than the negligible cost of a second door? I ask you.

[LegoLord]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most corpses will come from outside (safer in than out), which an above ground stockpile will be closer to, shortening jobs in the long run.  Then the dwarves that walk into subterranean stockpiles will still smell the miasma when they enter.

[Emmanovi]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most corpses will come from outside (safer in than out), which an above ground stockpile will be closer to, shortening jobs in the long run.  Then the dwarves that walk into subterranean stockpiles will still smell the miasma when they enter.

Back in the mountainhome, one of our biggest problems was the corpses of vermin left around by felines. The cats would stay around the food stockpiles and such, killing every fly, worm and roach that came nearby. This accordingly left a lot of dead vermin, which tended to decay rather quickly, expelling miasmatic clouds all over the corridors and stockpiles, some of the more travelled areas of the fort.

[Hilscher]

"Well, no one is changin' their mind. Vermin and kitchen waste will by far be the most common source of rottin' material, and eventually we're going to have ter make a below ground refuse room anyway, but I don't think the others intend ter vote." Grail said with a shake of her head, absently dragging her pick back and fourth in a small groove in the rough stone floor. She was in part of the unfinished main hall, an uncompleted corner where she could feel alone. Her audience was their Muskox, who stared through dull eyes back at Grail as she spoke, chewing something endlessly. "Reality doesn't compromise, though. The inevitable needs of Equalvoice will lead inexorably to an efficient waste management system. We'll put our corpses up in the sun ter rot for now, as our democracy demands, even if it's a mistake. No sense makin' a fuss over somethin' so small, especially when rationality and necessity will make demands of their own without the need fer further argument. Efficiency is king here, instead of the old crowned bones of our 'benefactor' back in the Mountainhome. Everyone is free here, and that freedom must invariably include the freedom to cast a thoughtless vote, or no vote in all in the case of our apathetic comrades who've yet ter voice their thoughts on the matter."

Grail shook her head again, and rubbed the long face of the Muskox, before standing back up and hefting her pick to get back to work. She was the lead miner. She could always refuse to dig if they tried to force her to make illogical hallways to an illogical sealed-off, above-ground refuse pile under a yawning azure sky instead of under solid rock where it belonged. She smiled at last, and struck the earth. The sparkling of gems in the walls seemed to smile back.

[joelpt]

I just thought I might suggest Google Moderator to help with the democratic voting you're using here:
http://moderator.appspot.com/

It allows people to submit questions into topic categories, each of which can then be voted on. Topics can also have deadlines. Check it out, it seems well suited to what you're doing here.