Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MrWiggles]

I fail to see how john 3 15 is the end all to christian belief.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Sorry to hear that.
Just in case someone doesnt know the gist of it:
(from the New American Standard Bible, reference version, Copyright 1975 The Lockman Foundation)
"that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Saviour, you goto heaven (well, I suppose you have to want to go, but if you believe, why wouldnt you?).  Nothing else is required.
most everything else is basicly life advice and history we could argue over infinatum.

your right, its not the end all.  It is the beginning.  The middle.  The end.  IMHO.  While I believe in John 3:15, I am not stating in this particular thread that anyone else should.  Thats another thread.  This is just a presentation of facts concerning "how christians goto heaven".

some supporting evidence from the same bible ( i love reference versions!):
John 20:31 "...but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

[MrWiggles]

That statement is still under the blasphemy of doubting the holy sprit.

[Sordid]

most everything else is basicly life advice and history we could argue over infinatum.

That reminds me of the Hillel the Elder and his quote: "Do not do to others that which you would not have them do to you. That is the Torah, the rest is commentary. Now go and learn it."

[Rilder]

Well, the real torture treatment is supposedly for really bad people, not non-believers, despite the preachings of radical missionaries.

The idea of not believing sending you to hell was, most likely, a tactic to convert people at a younger day and age (of the world, not people) when the ideas of human rights were not so advanced as they are now, as I understand it.

Well, if were going to get really technical. The bible doesn't speak much to hell at all. A lot of it are inventions of the various sects of Christiandom. Hell didn't really become popular until the medieval ages, and has always been used as a fear tactic.
Also fun link on the common grounds of theist and atheist. I don't agree with them all, But common, it been said once. It'll be said again. Getting atheist to agree on something is like herding cats.

I think you underestimate the ingenuity of a Dwarf Fortress player.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Well, the real torture treatment is supposedly for really bad people, not non-believers, despite the preachings of radical missionaries.

The idea of not believing sending you to hell was, most likely, a tactic to convert people at a younger day and age (of the world, not people) when the ideas of human rights were not so advanced as they are now, as I understand it.

Well, if were going to get really technical. The bible doesn't speak much to hell at all. A lot of it are inventions of the various sects of Christiandom. Hell didn't really become popular until the medieval ages, and has always been used as a fear tactic.
Also fun link on the common grounds of theist and atheist. I don't agree with them all, But common, it been said once. It'll be said again. Getting atheist to agree on something is like herding cats.

I think you underestimate the ingenuity of a Dwarf Fortress player.

Do ‼Cat‼s seek out water again? Will they?

 

[Tormy]

Are you, in general, tired of people being intolerant of your belief, or lack thereof?

Not really, because I don't give a sh*t about the opinion of others.  You shouldn't care at all.

[LegoLord]

Well, there actually can be occasions in which others' opinions of you can have affects out of your control.  If someone were to say something negative about an atheist to all of the atheist's friends just because he was an atheist, there could be some negative impact on his social life, and it would be born of intolerance.

Then there are much worse things that can happen, but fortunately do not happen often (hate crimes).  They are still a problem though.

[MrWiggles]

Hate crimes are ridiculously. If the end game for it not to matter, then there shouldn't be special exceptions to the rules.

[Sordid]

Well, there actually can be occasions in which others' opinions of you can have affects out of your control.  If someone were to say something negative about an atheist to all of the atheist's friends just because he was an atheist, there could be some negative impact on his social life, and it would be born of intolerance.

If my friends start to shun me because of somebody badmouthing me then they're idiots not worth my friendship and therefore their shunning does not bother me.

Then there are much worse things that can happen, but fortunately do not happen often (hate crimes).  They are still a problem though.

True, and you don't even need hate crimes as such for that, just replace "friends" in the above scenario with "boss" and there you go.

[Fishersalwaysdie]

Wait so if your boss fires you for being badmouthed he's not worth your work and it doesn't bother you?
I think you're being too tolerant.

[LegoLord]

I think he was referring to the friend situation, not the boss one.

Yeah, that wasn't the best situation, but I nothing else was coming to mind at the moment.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

That statement is still under the blasphemy of doubting the holy sprit.

huh?

[Fishersalwaysdie]

Holy Spirit is such a whiny bitch.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Holy Spirit is such a whiny bitch.

The Slayer of Threads wins.............................tolerance is now dead.