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MrWiggles

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Ghost
« on: May 02, 2009, 06:24:03 pm »

(This was written after spending time talking with Ghost Researchers)

I am a skeptic, I think that ideas, objects, events need evidence in equal weight to their claim. For instance, if someone were to claim that France does not exist. Then the claimant would need more evidence that France doesn't exist compared to the evidence that France does exist. That is a hefty height to be reached, but if the claim is true then in due time it can be reach.

Extraordinary Claims, require Extraordinary Evidence.

Those simple words describe so well what most Paranormal, Supernatural, and Alternate ideologies lack. I think that any Woo, if it were true would be so very cool. Even more ways to improve the human condition. More avenues for possible gains in knowledge and study. Theses are awesome. They truly are. It's not everyday a new branch of Science is opened.

When I was younger, I used to be believe in so much. Crop Circles were real, Sylvia Browne was the shit and Sightings was the cutting edge in unbiased reporting the world over. And far to many more to list. As I grew older it just wasn't adding up. The beer goggles needed to view the world were fading on me. Sadly one of the delusions that faded when my mind accepted rational logical and critical thinking was that Ghost were most likely to not exist.

Ghost have have been in folklore, and myths with the advent of Human conscious and realization of morality. Death is a scary ordeal. There no two ways about it. Couple this with a need and want to understand, explain the world around us as well as a need provide comfort for those grieving. An admiral cause in its origins indeed and the best our knowledge at the time allowed.

However as our knowledge grew and other methodology to explain the world around us matured, the model of Ghosts seems to be the triangle block going through the circle hole. Ghost are a beautiful idea. It just seems very unlikely. For Ghosts to exist it would require that humans (well any Sentient Species as Human are all that special on the planet) actions and consciousness to be different entities. This is generally known as Duality or informally as the Ghost in the Machine theory.

For a time it was a competing model to how the brian and mind work in the later half of the nineteenth century. It was for a time an acceptable position to hold in Neurology during its infancy. Science went on how it should. The completing theories proposed experiments to predict test results and falsify one another.

As time went on, the evidence laid bare to both parties, and it was pointing in one direction with little room for argument. The direction it pointed at that Duality wasn't needed to explain conscious and actions. That there was direct correlation to all observable events with brian activity and external physical/emotion reactions.

With all scientific theories, any excess baggage that can be edited out while the model it was portraying remained true, was. Having a sprit, or a soul, life energy what have you, wasn't needed to explain how the brian work. This became the working model, the dominating scientific theory, for the field of Neurology and it even affected Psychology as well. So far since the early Twentieth century it has remained so. Even in the Twentieth First century, Neurology is seeing even more conformation to their Scientific Theory with the inventions of the MIR and MEG so on so forth. The newest contraptions can even see real time data from external stimulia then brian reaction then external reaction. This can be seen with pain or even emotions such as love. (Displaying photographs of love ones).

For this part of 'Theory of Ghost' to work it would have to eventually provide enough evidence to rewrite the century of evidence that this isn't how the brian works. This is a daunting task. However, like all scientific fields it is open to rewrites and revolutions in thinking. Just as long as the evidence provide is testable, the Scientific Theory is fallible and it explains all previous known evidence. Again an incredibly daunting task.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence.

Then a further claim of the 'Theory of Ghost', is that once a person dies. (Although in my research I cannot find an accepted definition of Death) That their Soul, life force, consciousness what have you is somehow magically independent of their body and somehow magically retain certain aspects of their former lives. (Even though such things as memory are stored directly by how the neurons are organized and by no means correlated to electrical fields.)

The vague and ambiguous reasoning that I managed to find is for this is that since the brian releases electrical signals as the neurons fire, and produces a weak (extremely weak, refrigerator magnets are stronger) EM fields that this field is retained in the surrounding medium. Generally Air, although it it can also inhabit objects and even other persons. Some places like to interject some Science Souding words, such as Thermodynamics, Quantum Mechanics and brian waves. Although two of these terms are not related to biology at all, and very strange unwieldily to use in this context. Thermodynamics deal with energy and cohesion and how efficient it can be used. Quantum Mechanics deals with the interaction of sub-atomic world. Currently for Physics, the macro and micro world do not interact. (Although they must). Beyond this, the body does not use any quantum effects, the brian does not have a section that can send or receive 'quantum signals' or any signals at all. The brain is not an antenna. Brian waves are real, but they do not even go beyond the scalp since they are so incredibly weak.

For this part of the 'Theory of Ghost' to work, it requires that Duality to be true and thusly inherits the burden of evidence of the first claim. However nothing to fear, if it is correct it will eventually lead it self to be seen as so. It also requires that a Electromagnetic Field can exist without any known methods for producing such a field.

For all currently understood EM fields to be generated it requires One of two things.

A magnet to be moved along conductive wiring. Or Conductive wires to be moved around a magnet. This is the principle that most electricity generators work under.

Moving Electrical Current in conductive wires. This is the property which Electromagnetic works under.


A theory would have to explain how an EM field can be generated and maintain in a fashion where there are no known mechanics or electricity or magnetism being introduced into a open system and retaining cohesion. (Oddly breaking the laws of pesky Thermodynamics.) For Ghosts to work in this fashion it would have to reinvent the field of Electrodynamics and provide enough evidence to prove another century of Scientific Theory is fundamentally wrong.

Two hundred plus years of science would so far have to rewritten to allow Ghost to work in a natural world with natural explanations. Although some may now go that Ghost are Supernatural, and therefore beyond Science as Science by definition doesn't deal with anything that isn't natural. If Ghost did not interact with the natural world, this would be correct.

However as with the next part of the 'Theory of Ghost' is that Ghost interact with their environment, their natural environment, therefore must be a natural event which can be explained with natural causes. Thusly squarely in the purview of science.

As before for this claim can only be true if two other parts of theory are true. An increasingly heavy burden. Ghost are claimed to interact with the environment in several ways;
  • Audibly
    Visually
    Physically
    Mentally
    Temperature of Ambient Air
    Draining of Batteries and presumably other electrical sources


I'll go down the list starting with Audible interactions. With keeping that Ghosts are supposed collections of EM fields that passed over from the dying brian. The most common reporting of this type of interaction is hearing with one owns ear, and recording it and calling it an Electrical Voice Phenomena (EVP).

For this to happen, then there has to be a reasonable explanations on how an EM field can produce sound waves. EM Fields are silent and do not make a peep in any medium as EM fields do not agitate the air allowing vibrations to produce sounds.

Sound, is a form of energy propagation from vibration in gas, solid or liquid medium. The spread and heights of the waves have to be in a narrow range for human ears to pick up. This means that something has to disturb the medium, make waves then it travels out from the source equally.


Otherwise no one can stand to be in a modern city, with all the Radio waves (A part of the EM spectrum), generators, so on and so forth. It would be deafening if EM fields make a noise. This is an observable fact. There no room for corrections or difference of opinion. Reality says No.
(The noise that is heard is from the machinery producing the EM fields as with all machines they are no one hundred percent efficient.)

No WiFi for nerves.

With this being an impossibility then we have to look for another explanation on how a Ghost, a collection of EM fields, can induce the simulation of hearing something. Although I haven't seen this suggested this leads me to believe that Ghosst, the only other possible way is that it must interact with the brian directly from either the nerves or the brian. There is no current way to introduce outside signals to closed Neurons. They're insulated so that grouping of Nerves wont confuddle information. However there are junctions were nerves insulation is weak and allows electrical pulses to jump ship, but that is a very complicated part of the nervous system and outside the the scope of this post.

The only known method of introducing outside singles to nerves is to directly connect to the nerve. There is practical applications to this, such as implants that some Deaf persons may use to allow them regain some hearing. There are no events that I know of that has a ghost removing the nerve from the ear to the brian so that it may speak. This would make them deaf, although there are stories that ghost can do this (causing deafness not disconnecting nerves), it was a belligerent and purposeful attack and in no way a method of communication in a meaningful manner. As for interacting with the brain directly, I address with mental interaction, as the mechanism needed to do so is the same.

Although it does seem nearly impossible for a Ghost to to stimulate sound for a biological entity to hear it; it is also claimed that Ghost can also be heard on Recording Devices after the fact. These are known as EVP, and the Ghost oddly decides to;
Interactive with Present Party
Speak in some Recording Devices and not others especially if other are in the same room
Sporadically Utter Seemly Random Statements or
Sporadically answer Questions
Most Modern Microphone use the this basic principle. A device to transform Audible energy into Electrical Energy. This is generally done with a diaphragm moving past a magnet inducing a study amount of current. This is something that an EM field might be able to do. But of course this leads to the assumption that a ghost can now know how the operation of hundreds microphones and how to properly induce the correct electrical signals to allow them to have their voice on the device. This seems very unlikely, especially with ghost that died before Electricity was in common usage. I would also have to take a guess that this would be a probably a huge expenditure of energy on the Ghost part. (Then again it might not be.)

Then there is also the theory that the Ghost bypass the microphone altogether and imprints the information direction on the recording medium itself. This seems even more unlikely then just using the microphone as now the Ghost must have instant knowledge on how to affect Devices, such as flash drives which are not affected by magnetic forces to record their information.

Although if plausible, that a supposed EM collection, can induce communication this way vises-vi microphone, it seem to suggest that Ghost get an infinite amount of knowledge out of a vacuum.

Then there is also the problem of Paradolia. This is simply best explain the mind trying best to see/hear expected known things in random input. The mind is constantly associating patterns and predicts patterns to help us navigate the world around us. The thing that bites us is that it does too good of a job and it does an equally to good of a job to convince us that its real.

If a Ghost can somehow, use Microphone to communicate, then there needs to be a process to exclude the possibility that it is not simply our brian filling in the holes to ensure that the world make sense to us. Although I am currently searching for what is the accepted method that Ghost Hunters use to exclude this, I so far haven't found it. I am in the midst of designing my own controlled double blind assessment test of EVP and better instruments to limit the possibility that its not a mistake done by the instrumentation.

Visual interactions. Orbs, Shadow People. What have you, it comes down to a ghost changing it EM spectrum from what ever it natural spectrum is, into visual light spectrum. As EM fields cannot reflect, deflect or refract each other, they can only scramble with one another. This I do not think a Ghost would do (if it can), it would be much of a similar process of a Star going nova, it would loose cohesion spread to all points at the speed of light and begone forever. Suicide for a Ghost.

Unless a Ghost had the excess energy to transform some of its energy into visible light, this would require a fantastic energy expenditure even for a few seconds. Shooting off million of Photons at purposely different wave length to gain definition and color. This would disallow a ghost in any form being semi transparent, as any emitting light source blurs out near by light. (Well the strong source would blur the weaker one.)

A similar processes would also need to happen for the supposed 'Shadow People' as they are suppose to be an obeseness of light. As this Ghost would have to make light of the exact same wave length to cancel each other out, thusly making an absences of light Since its impossible for a collection of EM fields to physically block light it would have to do the latter, or a Ghost would have to increase its density in such a fashion it would create a strong gravitational field and just simply suck light into itself.

Physical interaction, such as moving books, cups and loaf of bread. It isn't impossible for a Magnetic field to affect none-pharis materials. What it does though, it requires several magnitudes higher in strength then what is used in industrial purposes. Which in turn requires an even greater amount of electrical energy then what your average abode, or office building is capable of before the fuse is blown. You practically need your own power plant to produce an electromagnet strong enough to affect ceramics, plastics and even bread. For this type of interaction I will place it in the plausible just highly unlikely for a ghost to do.

Then we physical interactions that involve people. These go from the begin 'Brush' to the moderate push or trip. Then the potential deadly such as abrasions that causes bruises, lacerations that draw blood, to even hanging in one case. I will say that this is nearly impossible for Ghost to be able to accomplish as the human body is not susceptible to magnetic forces. Otherwise, no one could use an MIR. Or fans, computers...

Then the latter claim such as lacerations or abrasions is also equally silly, a magnetic force is blunt. It does not cut. And magnetic fields repel like charged magnets, since the human body is neutrally charge it can not be pushed with a magnet.

Mental interaction, namely possession. Be this begin mediumship possession or pea soup spewing possession, it requires the same thing. The ability for EM radiation to change and overwrite neurons in our brian. Literally shifting, destroying and creating new neurons in the special places for the desired actions (Or random places I suppose). This is out right impossible. The human brian is not affected or changed by exposure to magnets or electricity. Otherwise when some one uses MRI they would pop out a different person. Or we would have real honest working magnetic therapies (Not the psedo-crap that helps with circulation of blood or the immunity, those are shit) for Coma victims.

Ambient Temperature changes, the classic cold spots and warm spots or the seemly different spots. This seems to be the oddest interaction that doesn't seem to comply with the rest of the Theory assumption on Ghosts. Heat is the local excitement (vibrating, shaking) of modules of any substance. This heat can be spread, refracted, reflected, deflected absorbed however it can not be turned directly into electrical energy. If a ghost did produce waste energy then it would give off Heat, allowing for Warm Spots. As with the thermodynamics each time it exchanges one energy to one other form there is always waste. If Ghost are real, they would by any means not leave a Cold Spot, but probably a Warm Spot by the means of wasting energy. However, how one can exclude all possible air current in an even closed system from producing the difference in ambient temperature is nearly insane. Modeling fluid dynamics, is one of the most mathematically complicated calculation to perform and is often left for super computer to ponder over.

It suppose to be a collection of several other data points to help extrapolate that a difference in air temperature is a ghost, however since there is no hard data comparing it with one another is trying to build a house of cards that have all been doused in water, while drunk with a bad ear infection. It just not stable. It also just silly and unwise.

Electrical Conducting in open air, is not impossible but it does require that the air to able to hold and conduct electricity. Currently this requires ionizing the air then by grounding the circuit or completing it. This is the basis for the Lighting Gun and Open Air Electrical Dispersal (something that the air force is testing in Alaska based off of Telsa ideas). This seems to be a required component for a ghost to able to 'live', but it would need a constant source of electricity to stay 'alive'.

As the Ghost can have no known mechanic to store electricity, since it basis for being 'alive' requires moving electrical current to produce an EM field. Although this is a similar problem as the ghost has been facing as the required energy to produce the affect would get the ghost a net loose of energy and kill it self even fast. The power and the ability to drain a battery would out strip the energy needed to sustain the ionized air to transfer the energy.

Then from the hardship of the current ghost theory stands and the seemly unlikely hood of several of its claims, if ghost were real, they would have to live in a power plant, and it would never do anything but feed. It would remain invisible. This compounded with that Ghost Research has been around for nearly a century, and scientific research has been around for almost thirty years that Ghost Research is no closer now then they were at day one. The only school of science that stays stagnant for decades at a time, is Parapsychology.

It seems to be that it would be very unlikely that ghost are real. It would require the rewriting of two well founded understood school of Science, and overturn their combined two hundred plus years of evidence as this is how reality works.

Science is not against Ghosst. Science is opposed to waste of time, and Ghost seem like waste of time.
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Idiom

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2009, 07:07:27 pm »

Electromagnetic fields are VERY interesting. They are self sustaining at times and self interacting. Seeing as we already have self interacting electrical activity as an intelligence or AI, it seems plausible to me that they could sustain some kind of intelligence.

Quote
I would also have to take a guess that this would be a probably a huge expenditure of energy on the Ghost part. (Then again it might not be.)
Ghosts are generally believed and recorded to suck energy out of their surroundings. The only reason I would believe is that they use it to sustain themselves, but the method is unknown to me. Regardless, I'd say the two are related.


Quote
Suicide for a Ghost.
Do temperatures drop more than normal when they manifest like that (pull energy from their environment)? Alternatively "shadow people", "shadow" as in absorbing light, could be pulling energy from the visible spectrum, creating a shadow of them as opposed to literally projecting themselves. Absorbing different wavelengths could even give limited color and explain some translucence still.

Quote
A device to transform Audible energy into Electrical Energy. This is generally done with a diaphragm moving past a magnet inducing a study amount of current. This is something that an EM field might be able to do. But of course this leads to the assumption that a ghost can now know how the operation of hundreds microphones and how to properly induce the correct electrical signals to allow them to have their voice on the device.
Forget the magnet and the diaphragm. An EM field can be picked up by other wires and manifest along the wire. It's called "crosstalk" and is the reason for many practices with computer cabling. Nearby wires carrying a current generate a small EM field.

How they generate EM patterns exactly as a voice sounds in electrical impulses I haven't a clue. If we picked up and magnified brainwaves and could discern voice from a raw signal, I'd believe they are generating EM patterns exactly as a voice sounds in electrical impulses. Something to test.

Quote
Then we physical interactions that involve people.
Here is where I do really begin to disbelieve the only EM idea. I think the EM is there, but there is more of the ghost than just that if they can physically interact. There's something to do some research into. I've some ideas on what, but I haven't heard any solid leads.

Quote
Science is not against Ghosst. Science is opposed to waste of time, and Ghost seem like waste of time.
Yet science loves captivating things. What it appears to be is unexplained electrical phenomena that defies conventional understanding.

Can you imagine if we prove this and can then take advantage? We could make ourselves immortal energy beings capable of manipulating the environment (don't say the "R" word)!
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 07:12:10 pm by Idiom »
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LegoLord

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2009, 07:24:14 pm »

I don't know; there could be all kinds of repercussions for it.  It would probably also be a good idea to avoid magnets; if you were nothing but an EM field, then a high powered electromagnet might be able to disrupt you to the point of destroying you.  Weaker ones might just give you the ghost equivalent of a headache.

Huh.  You know, there was an episode of A Pup Named Scooby Doo where part of their plan for catching the ghost involves using a magnet.  Funny, that.

Ooh!  I just remembered something else!  Be back in a second.
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LegoLord

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 07:26:21 pm »

LOOK AROUND YOU. /R

It's funny. 

Edit:  And it's a link.  I think it's hard to tell with the white-and-blue display of this section of the forum.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 08:50:38 pm by LegoLord »
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

MrWiggles

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2009, 12:55:55 am »

Electromagnetic fields are VERY interesting. They are self sustaining at times and self interacting. Seeing as we already have self interacting electrical activity as an intelligence or AI, it seems plausible to me that they could sustain some kind of intelligence.
EM field can be self sustaining, but not in an open system though, and there propagation mechanism. For Ghost they lack of a closed system and something to make an EM field. Most of the EM spectrum is the by product of physical and chemical reactions. Unless I'm mistaken There are no self accruing EM radiation. 

As for it retaining intelligence though, no its not impossible, the model for a magnetic bubble computer, or a quantum computer would uses atomic charges, or em radiation for its computation. But again, in a closed environment with a propagation mechanism. So I suppose I ghost under this pretense could exist in a box. Might align with hunted objects myths, but this doesn't allow for the general idea of a ghost. The thing roaming the hallways or some such.


Quote
I would also have to take a guess that this would be a probably a huge expenditure of energy on the Ghost part. (Then again it might not be.)
Ghosts are generally believed and recorded to suck energy out of their surroundings. The only reason I would believe is that they use it to sustain themselves, but the method is unknown to me. Regardless, I'd say the two are related.
[/quote]

Well, I will debate you on it being ever recorded. Something which the ghost hunter lack serveily is  working definition. Something can look at the data, and say ghost, not a ghost. Nothing as yet could be attributed to a ghost, at most they can say that gather this data. They lack a theory or hypotheses for ghost.

I did address them taking energy from the environment. Unless I missed type of energy they are taking.  Without a conversation taking place, absorbing the heat into an open system does nothing.


Quote
Suicide for a Ghost.
Do temperatures drop more than normal when they manifest like that (pull energy from their environment)?
From my research this is unstated, it just a local drop/raise. There were no averages taken of the environment, previous to the investigation or post the investigation. From my research they basically take a sample of the fluctuation in temperature that any house experiences. Which in themselves make these data points incredibly shallow. Although in my essay I address this in a different light that would still allow for one time visit. If you could model its air flow, then you can predict the range of temperate changes and therefore spot an artificial drop or spike. However doing so, is really freaken hard.

Alternatively "shadow people", "shadow" as in absorbing light, could be pulling energy from the visible spectrum, creating a shadow of them as opposed to literally projecting themselves. Absorbing different wavelengths could even give limited color and explain some translucence still.

Well to absorb light and transfer it from light to any other type of energy, there are a finite number. All of which require something tangible. Though yes, as always something may come long and say otherwise, but that not a worth while endeavor. Then your stuck with sure which doesn't prevent much insight. As for current understanding. No. An Em entity cannot absorb light, it could as stated cancel them out.

 
Quote
A device to transform Audible energy into Electrical Energy. This is generally done with a diaphragm moving past a magnet inducing a study amount of current. This is something that an EM field might be able to do. But of course this leads to the assumption that a ghost can now know how the operation of hundreds microphones and how to properly induce the correct electrical signals to allow them to have their voice on the device.
Forget the magnet and the diaphragm. An EM field can be picked up by other wires and manifest along the wire. It's called "crosstalk" and is the reason for many practices with computer cabling. Nearby wires carrying a current generate a small EM field.

How they generate EM patterns exactly as a voice sounds in electrical impulses I haven't a clue. If we picked up and magnified brainwaves and could discern voice from a raw signal, I'd believe they are generating EM patterns exactly as a voice sounds in electrical impulses. Something to test.
That an interesting proposition. Although it needs to be amended. The brian waves themselves carry no information such as this. It only tells us what state the brain is in, and which areas are active. If we hi jacked the neurons, then we might able to do. The research for this is slowing going, but making progress.

And if they are mimicking these impulses, then what would be cross talk would be the impulses to move the tongue, and contract the vocal cords, and control the diaphragm. From my research, any recorder will do, most tend to use a mid to low range product for budgetary reason, and most seem to choose with models that do not clean white and ambient noise. Anyway, side tracked.

It would be seemingly static, but with a possibly a discernible pattern. However, it would not be a voice. Very interesting though.


Quote
Then we physical interactions that involve people.
Here is where I do really begin to disbelieve the only EM idea. I think the EM is there, but there is more of the ghost than just that if they can physically interact. There's something to do some research into. I've some ideas on what, but I haven't heard any solid leads.
For Ghost to be real, it mean that our understanding the universe is fundamentally wrong. From the working of your car to the computer innards, our understanding is flawed. Not impossible, just a hefty claim and need for evidence. And to bailiwick the retort that science doesn't everything. Very true. And it will never know everything. However Ghost are not dealing with things purely in the unknown, but with Maxwell equations, and General & Special relativity. They would have to be wrong. I'm stating that these equations disprove ghost, I am saying that within these equations ghost have nothing to operate with.

Quote
Science is not against Ghosst. Science is opposed to waste of time, and Ghost seem like waste of time.
Yet science loves captivating things. What it appears to be is unexplained electrical phenomena that defies conventional understanding.

Can you imagine if we prove this and can then take advantage? We could make ourselves immortal energy beings capable of manipulating the environment (don't say the "R" word)!
Yea, silly science liking to deal with things that can reproduced. As I stated, HELL YEA! GHOST WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME!

I will also state, that when ever academia has delve into ghost research there has yet to be any unexplained phenomena. Amateur Ghost hunters/research group however seem to have lots, but when they do get there evidence reviewed, it misinteritation of natural phemona, or failure to understand the equipment they are using.

There a cool research going on currently why hunted places are perceived as hunted. An experience cannot be deined, and its not ghost. The hypotheses is that it an interesting combination of environmental and psychological reasons.

As skeptics seem to be immune from haunting.

Um. Still. What did you think of the tone? I'm worried that it seems to be really dismissive, but I tried my best to examine each claim on what would be needed for it to be true.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 01:46:37 am by MrWiggles »
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Rilder

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2009, 04:48:40 am »

Not gonna read that wall-o-text or write a wall-o-text but for the record at least two of my family members have had an experience with a ghost.
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Re: Ghost
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2009, 04:59:42 am »

Not gonna read that wall-o-text or write a wall-o-text but for the record at least two of my family members have had an experience with a ghost.

The plural of anecdotal is not evidence.
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Rilder

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2009, 05:07:32 am »

Not gonna read that wall-o-text or write a wall-o-text but for the record at least two of my family members have had an experience with a ghost.

The plural of anecdotal is not evidence.

I don't really care.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2009, 05:08:09 am »

Then why did you post?
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Rilder

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2009, 05:08:57 am »

Then why did you post?
Why do you post constantly about evidence and what not?
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2009, 05:12:03 am »

Then why did you post?
Why do you post constantly about evidence and what not?
Evidence proves all.

But the question is an odd one, and its rude to answer a question with a question.
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Rilder

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2009, 05:15:34 am »

Then why did you post?
Why do you post constantly about evidence and what not?
Evidence proves all.

But the question is an odd one, and its rude to answer a question with a question.

Well tbh your posts can basically condensed down to a single sentence:

"I refuse to believe that because I have no evidence"

WELL FIEND I BELIEVE YOUR EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE BECAUSE I HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT YOUR EVIDENCE IS EVIDENCE.

Rawr.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2009, 05:19:01 am »

Hmm, this isn't an examination of lack of evidence. Its an examination of what would be needed for the claims to be true. And from examination of those claims is why i stand on the subject.
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Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#

Rilder

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2009, 05:20:22 am »

Well to be honest I just want to annoy you.  :P
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghost
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2009, 05:41:32 am »

I'm pretty stead fast to being annoyed. Sorry.

If you want you could make me watch an episode of scifi ghost hunters.

Bleh.

They treat investigation like its a vacuum. They have no methodology for saying something is a ghost and isn't.

They don't take step or do not show to eliminate contaminates from the environment.

Bleh.
The thing that bugs me the most is they parade as if they are doing science, when they are just playing grab ass in the dark.
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Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#
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