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[Creamcorn]

Cage the heretic and sell him to elves!
..even though there is no real difference between zombie and elves..but..oh well..

Not true! Zombies don't send traders and don't demand you stop deforesting the entire region on a yearly basis.

True but they do eat the flesh of their kills, show up in masses to get slaughtered and are basically just nuisances to your fort.

[Yanlin]

But that makes them similar. Not the same.

[Duke 2.0]

Cage the heretic and sell him to elves!
..even though there is no real difference between zombie and elves..but..oh well..

Not true! Zombies don't send traders and don't demand you stop deforesting the entire region on a yearly basis.

The Zombie Hoard has mandated the construction of Brains 20/20

 But yes, there are a ton of stories that are awesome out there. Nist Akath isn't as well-known as it should be.

[Tormy]

"I know you folks don't hold much love for World of Warcraft..."

Why do you think so? I've started to play with WoW again a couple of days ago. 

[Chromie]

"I know you folks don't hold much love for World of Warcraft..."

Why do you think so? I've started to play with WoW again a couple of days ago. 

Ah, well. I at least have heard the sentiment that the way that most MMOs (of which wow is the most static, and I guess... EVE? Is currently the least?) resist letting players have any ability to change the game universe is ...basically antithetical to Dwarf Fort players, who LIVE to change/wreck/magma-fy the universe.

[Neruz]

Cage the heretic and sell him to elves!
..even though there is no real difference between zombie and elves..but..oh well..

Not true! Zombies don't send traders and don't demand you stop deforesting the entire region on a yearly basis.

True but they do eat the flesh of their kills, show up in masses to get slaughtered and are basically just nuisances to your fort.

Say that to the pack of Zombie Tuna waiting just offshore of my Viking Fort. I'm desperately hoping they stay in their tuna ball in the sea and don't decide to come up and join me.

[Mephansteras]

I at least have heard the sentiment that the way that most MMOs (of which wow is the most static, and I guess... EVE? Is currently the least?) resist letting players have any ability to change the game universe is ...basically antithetical to Dwarf Fort players, who LIVE to change/wreck/magma-fy the universe.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

[Neruz]

I at least have heard the sentiment that the way that most MMOs (of which wow is the most static, and I guess... EVE? Is currently the least?) resist letting players have any ability to change the game universe is ...basically antithetical to Dwarf Fort players, who LIVE to change/wreck/magma-fy the universe.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

Second Life accurately illustrates the problem with this; people are dicks.

[azazel]

Most people on WoW would most likely go "Graphics sucks!" when they see the screenshots or download the game.

This is even more amusing since WoW's graphics have not aged well, at all.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

I might have what you're looking for. Hold on...
http://www.quelsolaar.com/love/gameplay.html - Doesn't feature any magma though.

[Greiger]

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

Wurm online allows you to change pretty much anything.  All the highways, buildings, mines, tunnels, ect are all player made.  There are also many player made deserts, and you can clearcut an entire area and create a village.  I even made a big ascii dwarf face out of cobblestone tiles, sand tiles, and gravel tiles that would be visible on the map if the admins would make another map dump.  There is also a number of folks that at least heard of DF and there have been a few DF themed villages.  Game is free unless you want to break the lv 20 cap, then you have to pay 10 euros every 2 months to maintain yer premium skill levels.

However it requires a bit of commitment, farming requires you to check in on the plants periodically, and it takes a long time to travel or get decent skills in almost anything.  It took me a year of regular playing to get 60 mining skill and 40 fighting skill, and that is only average compared to everyone else. 

I ended up getting bored and just zombieing through after awhile mining and hunting just to maintain my skill and not really having any fun.  It pretty much just turned into a chore.  But it is entertaining until you've done everything you planned.

[Draco18s]

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

A friend of mine has an idea for an MMO which would have player driven stories, namely because each player would own several characters because perma death is rampant (Player A, "oh neat, I found a magic item!  but magic artifacts are bad!  better keep this a secret.... *artifact explodes violently* oh, damn."  Player B, *hears explosion* "What the hell was that?  ARG a giant crater in my field!  Who did this?  I'll pay 100 gold coins to the person who finds out who or what was responsible!")

Of course, he's a pot head and while he's got all these ideas he'll never be able to do anything with them.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

I might have what you're looking for. Hold on...
http://www.quelsolaar.com/love/gameplay.html - Doesn't feature any magma though.

Oh neat.  I might have to check that out.

[Shoku]

I at least have heard the sentiment that the way that most MMOs (of which wow is the most static, and I guess... EVE? Is currently the least?) resist letting players have any ability to change the game universe is ...basically antithetical to Dwarf Fort players, who LIVE to change/wreck/magma-fy the universe.

Yeah, it'd be neat to see an MMO where you could really change the world. I wrote a white paper on it here at SOE last year. No idea if my ideas will ever see the light of day, of course, but I can dream.

The problem with giving players control is that the only ones that know what to do with it are the ones who will ruin the economy to get rich.

I had an idea for something not-so-static as WoW yet still really just as static as WoW (hopefuly the best of world B and a pretty good slice of the best of world A)

Levels 1-10 would pretty much be the same thing except that there would be actual physical boundaries blocking access to the rest of the world. When you reach whatever requirement you could progress into the future and then the quests from levels 1-10 have all had their impact and 10-20 sees some of the repercussions of those, and/or the players can move past those boundaries into new areas that may or may not connect back to the earlier stuff.

And to keep the "but I want to run around with my friend who just started a character" option around there could pretty much be a Ocarina of Time option to put the master sword back and and return to your old body. Expansions could release new content in the lower level areas without high level characters just swarming it- you could set it up so there were serious level 30 raids and such.


An even more dynamic world... well, we're a bit of a minority when it comes to the reasons we want that. I don't think that the market would really allow for something like that to be number one right now. I know I'd be bouncing off the walls about a procedurally generated MMO after just hearing a few sentences about how they were going to keep it from being just "now go get me 5 troll scalps for my happiness potions" over and over but I understand that most of my friends wouldn't really care about the difference between generating this stuff and just having somebody write it.

[Mephansteras]

I don't think I can say too much about it, but my idea basically boiled down to a WoW style world where the NPCs and the world really interacted with the player. So quests would have a reason behind them, and THOSE would be procedurally generated. So if you save the little girl from the monster, she was actually saved. If you failed, well, she's dead. You could probably resurrect her in a fantasy world, but there could still be repercussions for people dying.

That's my idea of a dynamic MMO. One where the world lives, and the players are simply an important part of it.

Maybe now that Free Realms has actually launched I can go pester people about my ideas.

[RAM]

Cage the heretic and sell him to elves!
..even though there is no real difference between zombie and elves..but..oh well..

Not true! Zombies don't send traders and don't demand you stop deforesting the entire region on a yearly basis.

Actually they do, but you, not being fluent in moaning and lurching, just assume that they always want to kill you...

[Shoku]

Can a single player rescue the little girl or does this require hundreds of contributions?

Single players running around doing different stuff all over the place makes the game a lot more accessible (requiring a group to do anything is a pain in the ass, as any WoW raiders who aren't in a very-serious-guild [and probably most of the ones that are,] know.)

WoW has placed a few of the participation-from-everyone events in place as they release new high level content (since people can't level anymore,) but you know they're going to succeed so it just ends up being a competition between maybe factions and for the people who look up statistics between servers.

Warhammer has a lot of period type things where a lot of players participate to do something but they sounded like they were all just kill a tidal wave of enemies (I imagine there are some other objectives but my friend doesn't describe mechanics well.)

So you need a way to handle allowing non-group play if you want that to really work as the foundation for most of your quests.