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Author Topic: Pondering the Fortress of Soap  (Read 2218 times)

Captain Xenon

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Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« on: April 30, 2009, 09:23:10 pm »

one dwarf with a pick, another with an axe. with that and nothing else, you can have a great fortress. the number you have is simply a question of speed an efficiency. everyone starts with 3 logs in their wagon, and the two animals that pulled their wagon(which rarely match). most of us are picky about our embark points. we know the true value of sand and water, magma and vegetation. some of us may even risk the one-horned death to get closer to the sunberries. others await the fickle elves trade caravans. 

so, a herbalist gathers a seed. a planter builds a field and plants a seed, harvests it, process it in his workshop, then takes the seeds to repeat the process. the loom takes the thread and a third dwarf weaves cloth. a fourth dwarf in a third shop makes the cloth into a bag. a 5th dwarf mined stone with his pick, and channeled the magma, that a 6th dwarf has a glass furnace to work. the sand goes in the bag. a 7th dwarf cut the wood, an 8th dwarf burned the wood in the 5th shop, while the 9th dwarf in the 6th shop is a carpenter at work. a 10th dwarf takes a bucket from the carpenter, and now the ashery is our 7th shop. ash to potash to lye. at the 8th shop our 11th dwarf makes pearlash from potash in the kiln. cut back to the glassmaker, and clear glass vials are ready. butcher and cook bring us to 13 dwarves, as we turn kittens into tallow. and the 14th dwarf is lucky, for he is the soaper in the 11th workshop.

So, our 14th dwarf uses the labor of the fortress, and turns kittens, wood, and sand into SOAP!

now our 15th dwarf is a mason, and he takes that soap, and makes some fine roads across the clearcut sandy landscape. at *25 per bar, that soap makes some fine roads. better than stone, better than glass. and more plentiful than most metals, at least until the next goblin siege is melted down.

soap is our best rube goldberg craft. it takes the most work, and requires a more specific map to be used at all. 14 dwarves in 11 workshops, and thats ignoring the tanner/leatherworker that benefit from our source of tallow.

did i have a point? perhaps its somewhere under the idea of a soapy megaproject. but you need a breeding pair of animals, an axe, a pick, and a lot of dwarves to work. the 'soap' challenge is an interesting one. you have to have sand and wood, magma helps, and you need a lot of stuff to work with. but whats the minimum for a soapy challenge? you can work without a pick, but you need something fire-safe to get things started. but soap dosent DO anything, you can only build with it, and stone works just as well for most things. soap needs the most resources of anything to make- its a challenge just to get a decent stockpile of soap in the first place! well, you dont need an anvil really, but you want one anyway. why not?

in the end, i simply wonder- what is the deadliest soap? is it the dread Elephant soap of boatmurdered? or do we have something more deadly in its soapy peril? Dragon soap perhaps? but dragons are rare things, you will never build a 20 z-level tower of dragon soap without cheating. how often does any fort see one dragon, much less capture a mating pair?
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Wild Goose

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 09:28:16 pm »

That's one incredibly slippery road.  I can just see the elven caravan come skidding along and slide off the road right into an inconveniently placed magma pit.

You need sand to make soap?

Also, fire imp fat randomly catches on fire, right?  What about fire imp tallow?  Fire imp soap?
Fire Imp Soap; Exfoliating Incindiary Goodness.
And I can just see your road/wall/floor randomly bursting into flames, too.
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"Adventurer's Motto; Take everything not nailed down and nail down whoever tries to stop you."

"Whatever happens, we have got the ballista and they have not."

The dwarven economy is just a stand-in, from what I understand. As it is, it represents an actual economic system about as well as poison ivy represents a salad.

Skorpion

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 09:32:07 pm »

That's one incredibly slippery road.  I can just see the elven caravan come skidding along and slide off the road right into an inconveniently placed magma pit.

You need sand to make soap?

Also, fire imp fat randomly catches on fire, right?  What about fire imp tallow?  Fire imp soap?
Fire Imp Soap; Exfoliating Incindiary Goodness.
And I can just see your road/wall/floor randomly bursting into flames, too.

My current fort actually has a fire imp tallow soap wall. Just one block of it, but I wanted to put it somewhere just to brag about my luck.
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The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Captain Xenon

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 09:35:36 pm »

sand -> clear glass vials( with pearlash) -> alchemists workshop. you cant embark with or trade for sand or glass, so no glass means no soap sadly.

gratz on the imp soap, i think i had some imp fat in my stockpile once from all the burning barrels. stuffs hard to work with.
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Enzo

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 12:21:49 am »

Wait, how did you manage to make fire imp soap without horribly maiming your soapmaker? Not that horribly maiming a soapmaker is a bad thing.
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Mzbundifund

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 02:05:11 am »

You can always turn off temperature.  Also it seems that the fat is only lethal temporarily, and doesn't act as a heat source.  I've gotten lucky for some reason a couple times and had the fat not boil away.
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hillburra

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 02:15:11 am »

My fort lost so much value when my dwarves ate my fire imp tallow roasts :(
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kefkakrazy

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2009, 04:12:12 am »

Strangely, I've never had fire imp fat explode on me. I have temperature turned on, so it's kinda weird.
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Neruz

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2009, 04:53:29 am »

Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. I had two almost identical meals with Fire Imp Tallow in them, one was eaten just fine, the other set the eatee on fire (he finished his meal before jumping in the water supply to put himself out.)

Blakmane

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2009, 05:09:41 am »

Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. I had two almost identical meals with Fire Imp Tallow in them, one was eaten just fine, the other set the eatee on fire (he finished his meal before jumping in the water supply to put himself out.)

haha as if, dwarves don't put themselves out, they just keep on burning until they die.
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Skorpion

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2009, 10:04:22 am »

Wait, how did you manage to make fire imp soap without horribly maiming your soapmaker? Not that horribly maiming a soapmaker is a bad thing.

I don't rightly know. The fat didn't boil away in the butchering after I shot the little fucker, so I rendered it. It didn't set the kitchens on fire. Then I soaped it. It didn't set the soap factory on fire. It sat in a stockpile, in a wooden bin, for a while. It didn't set anything on fire. So I made a wall out of it to show it off.
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The *large serrated steel disk* strikes the Raven in the head, tearing apart the muscle, shattering the skull, and tearing apart the brain!
A tendon in the skull has been torn!
The Raven has been knocked unconcious!

Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.

Wild Goose

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2009, 10:15:42 am »

Sometimes it does; sometimes it doesn't. I had two almost identical meals with Fire Imp Tallow in them, one was eaten just fine, the other set the eatee on fire (he finished his meal before jumping in the water supply to put himself out.)
Hey, he was hungry.  He paid for the ridiculously expensive meal, he's damn well going to eat it before it burns up.
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"Adventurer's Motto; Take everything not nailed down and nail down whoever tries to stop you."

"Whatever happens, we have got the ballista and they have not."

The dwarven economy is just a stand-in, from what I understand. As it is, it represents an actual economic system about as well as poison ivy represents a salad.

Captain Xenon

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2009, 02:29:10 pm »

final exams done for the day, back to pondering.

butcher -> cook; woodcutter -> wood burner -> lye maker; -> soap maker. 6 active dwarves in 5 shops and an area of trees. not counting the haulers though- lets face it, a busy butcher NEEDS a dedicated hauler or two to keep the chucks moving out of his way. every slaughter is 5 hauling jobs, lets hope its a short walk.

so the animals breed, and we get totems, bone bolts, leather, meat(biscuts?), and tallow. clearcut the forest and annoy the elves (and i DARE ya to siege me ya pansies!), burn it to ash and make lye. the economy can run on soap alone.

Urist McSoapmaker promises a soap industry bailout! a vote for Urist is a vote for more jobs in industry! positive externalities for refuse haulers, tanners, bone carvers, and leather workers, possibly hunters as well. 

whats that? his opposition claims it will hurt foreign relations? cause miasima to flood the fort, and risk the endangered species of kittens? *Urist mandates opposition pull the death chamber lever* oh well.... heck, we can build an atom-smasher deathtrap out of soap!

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Time Kitten

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 02:47:49 pm »

Use the kitten leather to make a bag instead of starting an early farming industry, and hoping you can find some rope reed (haven't in my last three forts) may also tighten the efficiency, unless the kitten is adopted first, of course.
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PTTG??

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Re: Pondering the Fortress of Soap
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2009, 02:55:44 pm »

Puppies work better than kittens because they don't adopt dwarves.
Horses- and better yet yaks- are even better because they have more fat per animal.

I've tried this and it's tough getting started but could be a pretty awesome thing. Even better is to start with just a few lumps of rock and an axe in some heavily wooded area. And no skills.
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