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[Hawkfrost]

I like to er on the side of caution, and just do what it takes to make sure I don't have a screwy afterlife.

Ah, but isn't that how most religions get people?
Promising them that if they follow the tenets of the faith, that paradise awaits, and if they don't follow the religion, eternal damnation is to come?

I think that is a manipulative way to gain members, they should come because the teachings reverberate in their soul and truly rests in their heart and mind, not because they are scared into it by fears of endless torture.

[MrWiggles]

LegoLord is the personification of Pascal Wager. 

Let hope its not Thor, or someone else.Actually let not hope it Thor, as he has very strong kill the mother fucker kinda of attitude.

[Psyco Jelly]

Actually, I think that any god could be an ascendant sentient creature (Note: Not only human.) Or primordial ancient beings, really anything.

[Armok]

I think these issues really always boils down to semantics.
For most all default definitions, I'm very strongly an atheist who does not believe in anything supernatural or paranormal whatsoever.

However, to answer a question, for example "does god(s) exist?" what you first have to do, is to interpret that string of ASCII characters into meaningful concepts. And you will find this can de done several ways, some giving different answers to the question.

Let's start whit "does", this one is easy; "Is the statement 'the property "exists" apply to the object "god" ' true? "

Defining "god"? That's a bit harder, there are various acceptable definitions:
"A anthropomorphic good omnipotent omniscient supernatural superhuman entity that is perfect and infallible in every and any way and rules over everything without exception"? (this is what monotheistic religions are about)
"A supernatural entity of immense power"? (the various "pagan" religions)
"An entity that is in some way the omnipotent creator and ruler of an universe"? (One of my favorites. It's a perfectly viable definition. AND IT MEANS EVERY AUTHOR IS LITERARY A GOD.)
"A being whose power and intelligence far exceed human comprehension"? (various scifi entities like AIs, group minds, genetically engineered superintelligences etc. qualify here. Actually, whit a bit of a stretch some organizations/social phenomena might count.)
"A member of the species 'god' Ditieus verypowerfullerius"? (common in some fantasy works. Also some of the pagan religions.)
Feel free to think of more.

Defining "exists"? Now it's getting really hairy, and this is were most people do wrong. You see, they go by gut feeling, that there is one "reality", were statements are true, and everything else is "lies" "wrong" or "just fiction and fantasies". There is really no such clear reason why this should be the one definition of reality, and indeed it is quite a flawed definition. The line between delusion and reality is not as sharp as it might look.
Asking any question, except a mathematical one, without defining what you mean by reality (usually done by assumption) can only result in "mu".
I might go into detail of various definitions, and the one I favour, but that will have to be another post another day.

[MrWiggles]

Actually, I think that any god could be an ascendant sentient creature (Note: Not only human.) Or primordial ancient beings, really anything.

Then it could be Thor with his kill the motherfucker attitude. (it is wrong that now I see Thor, with a reverse cap, with a strap tuck in his loose fitting jeans, with his papers in fat wads?)

But on a slightly more serious if it could be anything, then it all have an equal probability of being true, and but each one is also equally wrong. Its impractical to believe in them all. And it more likely for one to be wrong.

This is assuming this god cares. If he doesn't, then why bother. Move on. If he does, then does this god just want lip service?  Would this god be mad that you choose someone over him?

We need a method to determine truth.

[Psyco Jelly]

These gods probably wouldn't care if I stopped believing in them. But I feel as if they influence me, and my worship, if nothing else, has lead me to a very thought provoking discussion such as this one. Slowly it seems that my worship of them leads me to very interesting information, so I use it as a way to gain knowledge of various things.

So, various reasons people believe in metaphysical entities:

To have someone to blame their own actions on.

To feel less lonely.

Fear of eternal punishment.

Promise of eternal reward.

Promise of enlightenment to the previously unexplained.

I'd fit on the last one. It seems as though my worship will help light my path.

[MrWiggles]

I can't think of one thing that is unexplainable. Example of an unexplainable becoming explained to you?

[Psyco Jelly]

DAMN.

I meant to say unexplained. I will fix it.

[MrWiggles]

DAMN.

I meant to say unexplained. I will fix it.

Ah, there we go.

Just to be honest if you did provide an example I would have said it was never unexplainable, if it was explained.

But anyhow, an example of explained that now explained?

[Hawkfrost]

I already have my answers, which I attained from nature, my own mind, and yes, the responses from the gods.

They are there to answer, if you are ready to listen.


Every person has their own path and I respect that.
I'm not sure (or ever going to attempt to prove or disprove, that is not my responsibility) that the other faiths and belief systems are true or not, but I have personal experience in knowing that my faith is true, regardless of others.

Psshhaa, I doubt anyone will believe me anyway though, but my friend who embraced the faith also experienced the same thing.

[Psyco Jelly]

By explain the unexplained, I mean the unexplained to me. All the knowledge that comes to me through these pursuits could arguably be considered the work of the gods, though indirect. It came to me in a dream sent by them that I should begin to study organic chemistry, and then I found that I have somewhat of a natural aptitude for that.

[¿]

I missed it? Idiom told me some shit was going down with authentic shit-heads. This doesn't look like it. Was it deleted? Damn.

To the age old question:

Does: Query.

God: This is the big one. I consider most anything that is any sort of higher power a 'god' of sorts. To the classic 'GOD' I have a few doubts. On a smaller scale of a being 'God' I find more reasonable. Lastly 'god' being inevitable and at this point much like what is a super powerful angel or demon of a more classic sense, but most likely an outerworlder or something Lovecraft from a higher dimensions.

Exist: Well, everything exists somewhere. And then everything becomes pointless. So instead I like to say that only things that will ever be relevant to me exist. So, will any gods of any sorts ever screw with me? That translated through my definition becomes: Will any higher power ever screw with me? I say that's inevitable.

All three of those mesh into: Does God exist? Yes.

[Ampersand]

Does God Exist

God: You claim that a god being is inevitable. With that, I disagree. You claim that it is most likely something of Lovecraftian origin. Some higher planar being. Where do you get that idea? What evidence do you have that such a thing is possible? There is no evidence that these planes exist, and Dimensions are not alternate universes, or states of existence, they are degrees in which you may move, and do not define places. If something exists in this universe, it must by definition of existing within this universe exist in all dimensions. I exist in one dimensional space, two dimensional space, three dimensional space, and four dimensional space. If more dimensions of space exist than that, I exist on them too by definition of being within space. I cannot however exist in 3D space without existing in 2D space. It is contridictory by definition.

Upon that, there is only vague mathematical evidence that higher dimensions exist in forms of tiny curled up Planck Length loops at every point in reality. It may not be the case at all. If it is, the only thing that exists in these loops is tiny filaments of vibrating energy that define point particles by their vibrations. In fact, if String Theory is true, everything exists in higher dimensions, but is projected upon a 3D space.

Exist: No, not everything exists somewhere. The universe is infinite, but there are limits to what may exist. There isn't for example, a universe sized star. Everything that can exist in this universe may exist.

Taken together, what conclusions that I draw from this? I cannot draw any conclusions other than the question is wrong. Before one can begin question whether or not a god exists, one must establish that there is something to the concept other than scared sheep herders 10,000 years ago shouting at the sky because the rain didn't come on time. If we toss out every holy book ever written by man, and examine the universe without the concepts laid out in books like the Torah, the Talmud, the Christian Gospels, the Koran, the Vedas, the Tipitaka, etc, and just used what we can extract from the universe as we can perceive it, would we reach the conclusion that there exists a universe creator, all powerful, all knowing supreme entity?

At this point, the answer is no. At some point in the future, that answer might change, but for now, it is no.

[LegoLord]

Why do people always think that following one religion over another would get you into hell if it turned out that one religion was right and you were wrong?  If you look at most religions, they do, by and large, say most of the same things, when they are not doing crazy things like banning broccoli or shrimp.  "Don't steal."  "Do not kill other humans."  "Help those who are in need."  Just those three alone can be found in many religions world over. 

I have some other reasoning behind my belief:  There are three coordinate planes, often called dimensions or axis, that we as humans can actively observe as we please.  There is distance, or length, called the x-axis is geometry.  Then there is width, called the y-axis in geometry.  Then there is depth, called the z-axis in geometry.  But we are only semi-3D creatures.  There is also time, a fourth dimension (or coordinate), that we are aware exists, and can see passing us by, but we cannot go to a spot and observe what happened thirty years before we were there.  We have to put the events in some re-playable 3D form using technology.

Beyond that, we do not, as of yet, have the technology to observe anything beyond that.  There could be only four dimensions.  Or it could turn out that there are five, or six, or any other number of other coordinate planes on which beings of omnipotence could exist.  Yet we do not know.  We cannot know.  But why risk its wrath if it should turn out there are more than the mere four dimensions we are aware of?  One could have dozens of reasons.  I, personally, see none that apply to me.  You are not me, and I am not you.  It is not up to me to decide whether or not you take the risk, and it is not up to you whether or not I take the risk.   Should it turn out I am wrong, I at least intend to have a good run, and will not have lost anything.  Should it turn out you are wrong, well, then hopefully you at least had a good run.  If it turns out you are right, you have lost nothing.

[¿]

Why do people always think that following one religion over another would get you into hell if it turned out that one religion was right and you were wrong?  If you look at most religions, they do, by and large, say most of the same things, when they are not doing crazy things like banning broccoli or shrimp.  "Don't steal."  "Do not kill other humans."  "Help those who are in need."  Just those three alone can be found in many religions world over.

That. I never understood what all the worry was about.

Where do you get that idea?

Planes of movement, yes. Something with movement on an extra dimension compared to us could never reveal itself by never existing at the same 4th dimensional frame as us. It is inevitable because I believe that we are not the only life to have occurred, and while even if you think the 3 levels of reality we can perceive are a lot, there's a ton more for life to occur on. Intelligence will come about with inherently much greater abilities than ours. Possibly even ones that can chose to move through time unlike us stuck on a rail. They would find us easily. They would be gods to us.