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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[ToonyMan]

That's a kooky townie then.

[Mr.Person]

That's a kooky townie then.

But the key is, it could be a kooky Vigilante or a kooky Medium or whatever.

I say go ahead and add the Vampire. On the other hand, Meph, you really should add rarities to roles, so Reporters, Heroic Bodyguards, and Townies are common; Exterminators, Agents, and Vigilantes are uncommon; Telepaths, War Vets, and Guardians are rare; and Watchers, Vampires, and Scientists are super-rare, for example. You do what you want, but it's getting strange to see a Scientist in every single game. Even if you change them around, it will still get odd to see so many powerful and somewhat crazy roles every game. I'm fine with having them and a few showing up, but there's a few too many, at the moment.

Oh, and about the Scientist. If you do add the Vampire in, what happens if the Scientist abducts a Vampire? Does he count as an Alien? Perhaps you should change the Scientist to grab "2 humans and a non-human being", or possibly even changing it so there's several varieties of Scientist and they have a "Scavenger Hunt" style list of beings to grab eg. "a human and 2 non-humans", "3 Humans, one of whom is psychic",  "4 specimens of any kind", "2 beings who are willing to kill", or even something specific like "Get the Agent" or "Grab 2 Aliens". There's a lot of things that can be done with the Scientist. On the plus side, you could merge in the Agent Seeker, the Dopp Seeker, and the Cult Seeker. On the down-side, somebody will probably find a way to break it if all the possibilities are public, it would be confusing as hell to see the role list double in size for one role, and just imagining all the work that would have to be done for ONE ROLE is just insane. Again, just throwing ideas out, feel free to ignore them.

Oh, and thank you Meph for making and keeping Paranormal alive for 10 games. You're a really great host, I don't care how many broken-ass roles you make.

[Mephansteras]

Oh, and thank you Meph for making and keeping Paranormal alive for 10 games. You're a really great host, I don't care how many broken-ass roles you make.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Rarity isn't a bad idea. It's already there for most roles because of the Weight. It does break down for the Aliens, though, since they're more neutral and have weights at or closer to 0. So the script can throw in a Scientist whenever it wants without messing with things.

I'm going to go through and consolidate all of the changes I'm thinking of making. Then I can decide if it's ok to add in Vampires this round or not. I'm also considering Werewolves as an NK-immune serial killer role and a Monster Hunter who's victory goal is to kill all Vampires and Werewolves (and if I add in other non-alien 3rd parties them too). He'd be able to do an investigate each night like an Agent, except he gets 'Vampire/Werewolf or Not' as a result instead of Human, Dopp, whatever. He would also get night-kills, and is the only role that can NK a werewolf.

All of that might be a bit much for one game, though, so it might be the basic role changes for next time with the new roles for Round 12.

[Mephansteras]

Round 11 now has sign-ups open. We'll finish up hashing out rules changes before it starts, of course.

[CobaltKobold]

I think game10 showed that scientists are not necessarily so pro-town as claimed, as they can really make a deal with either side. And, in fact, since the $scum get the low-level intel (scum v notscum)  they should be more likely to deal with scum in future. It looks like intel makes for incredibly powerful alliances, rather than personal power.

Personally, I'm kind of surprised the scientist has managed to nab Aliens each go...since they should be the low-probability and likely the one on which they're most likely to fail, as they should be in shortest supply, and can e'en leave early!

Oh. Suggest New Role: Human Hunter. One slot tops, needs abduct one or two.
Helps balance out the "alien-find" roles in terms of pro/anti as well as fla'or.
Because it is easy to get a Confirmed Cow.

I'm thinking some roles may need to get a Partial Victory condition...Scientist(ran out of aliens, but got human/scum) and Exterminator team(alien(s) escaped, with abductees) - I guess they already sorta get that.

Presumably the Scientist can get an Alien somewhere else, an the Exterminator might be trying to eliminate [rival alien  dopp-creator group's] interests on Earth. Because if a dopp/other aliens fly off, they weren't on that side anyway, and are just helping ruin the place with you. And they'd kill remaining humans so further dopps would be useless- salting the earth, if you will.

[Leafsnail]

Personally, I'm kind of surprised the scientist has managed to nab Aliens each go...since they should be the low-probability and likely the one on which they're most likely to fail, as they should be in shortest supply, and can e'en leave early!

I made a judgement error.  I was hoping that, if there were a Scientist, he would grab me, keep me safe for a day or two in his ship and then be killed off by the cultists after being forced to publicly claim.  Didn't realise the town was doing so badly that that wouldn't be necessary...

[Mephansteras]

Ok, here are the current changes that I'm looking at for Round 11. I think the new roles will go in for round 12.


Accepted Changes:

Rules Change: Telepathy no longer shows a static Goal for a Role. Instead, it shows the Goal that the player has that night, based on what action they are taken and what role they have. Roles with passive abilities will usually show up with a specific Goal always. All other roles show 'Survive' unless they performed an action that night which changes their Goal. Doppelgangers, for example, now show 'Survive' if they do nothing, 'Kill' if they are performing the Night-kill, or 'Find'/'Protect' if they are using a Role with that goal.


List of Roles and Goals:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Role	Goal
Townsperson	Survive
Agent	Find if power is used
Detective	Find if power is used
Telepath	Find if power is used
Guardian	Protect if power is used
War Vet	Kill if power is active
Heroic Guard	Protect if power is used
Observent Guard	Protect if power is used
Vengful Guard	Protect if power is used
Mad Scientist	Based on tech
Medium	Survive
Enchanter	Survive
Warlock	Kill
Psychic Warden	Protect if power is used
Vigilante	Kill if Night Killing
Reporter	Find if power is used
Kook	Survive
Goth	Survive
Doppelganger	Kill if Night Killing
Leader	Kill if Night Killing
Advanced Doppelganger	Kill if Night Killing
Exterminator	Kill if Night Killing
Agent Seeker	Find if power is used
Doppelganger Hunter	Find if power is used
Cult Hunter	Find if power is used
Survivor	Survive
Operative	Based on power used
Scientist	Find if power is used
Watcher	Survive
Cult Leader	Kill if Night Killing
Cultist	Kill if Night Killing

Tech:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tech	Goal
Personal Shield	No Effect
Holoform Modulator	No Effect
Scanner	Find if used as the only action for that night
Deadman bomb	Kill
Assassin bot	No Effect
Mind Control Ray	Protect if used as the only action for that night
Intel	No Effect
Plasma Bomb	Kill if used
Stun Orb	Protect if used as the only action for that night
Stun Bomb	Protect if used
Human Tech	No Effect
Combat Camouflage	No Effect
Body Double	No Effect
Security System	Find
Sentry Guns	Kill
Snooper Bot	Find if used

Role Changes:

• Telepath
      [Psychic]
      Race: Human or Doppelganger
      Goal: Find
      Rules: The Telepath has limited psychic powers. Once per night, the Telepath can investigate a player and use their powers to determine the goal that character had that night based on their Role and Actions taken. The Telepath need not leave his house to use his powers.
      Victory: Town/Cult/Doppelgangers win
  
• Alien Scientist
      Race: Alien
      Goal: Find
      Tech: 1 slots
      Rules: The Alien Scientist is on earth to capture one example of each species for study (1 human, 1 doppelganger/cultist, 1 alien). Each night he may choose to Abduct a player. If that player is of a race he does not have, they are removed from the game and kept for study. If he already has one, they are returned to play the following morning. The Scientist and all of his captives may freely PM one another. Once he has 1 of each, he wins and he and all abducted players are removed from the game. If he is killed, all abducted players are returned to the game. If the game ends and he does not have one of each, he loses. He only obstructs the win condition of the Exterminator.
      Victory: Captures 1 normal human, 1 psychic human, 1 doppelganger/cultist, and 1 alien
  

Goth and Kook are changed to Abilities instead of Roles.

Changed Tech:
         

• Mind Control Ray: Once per game the MS can use the Mind Control Ray to choose another player's target for the night. If the player does not have a night action (and is not the dopp/cultist chosen for the night kill), or if the player has a limited-use night ability and chose not to use it, then no action occurs. The Ray also allows the Scientist to control that player's vote during the next day and may change it as often as he wishes.

Possible Changes

• Vampire
      Race: Vampire
      Visible Role: No Role
      Goal: Kill when hunting (even though it's not really a kill per se, it's still bloodthirsty and violent)
      Rules: This character is a Vampire, preying on the Townsfolk to fuel their undead life. The Vampire must hunt each night, feeding on human blood to sustain themselves. This feeding will role-block the victim, and the Vampire will use his hypnotic powers to erase all memory of the attack from the victim. If the victim has a Mind Shield, they will still be role-blocked but will know what happened (but not who). If the target is a Doppelganger, Cultist, or Alien they are still role-blocked and hypnotized but the feeding is considered a failure. Two failures in a row and the vampire will go into a comatose state, effectively removed from the game.
    If a human is fed upon twice in the game by the same vampire, they will become a vampire themselves. If a human is fed upon by more then one vampire in the same night, they die of blood loss.
    The Vampire wins when all non-vampire players are dead or gone.
  
• Charismatic Cultist
      Race: Corrupted Human
      Visible Role: No Role
      Goal: Protect when power is used
      Rules: This character is a Cultist who really believes in what they are doing. So much so that once per game he can visit another player at night and convert them to the Cult's side. That player's victory condition is now 'Cult Wins' and all other victory conditions they had are gone.
    Victory: Cult Wins
  
• Possessed Cultist
      Race: Corrupted Human
      Visible Role: No Role
      Goal: Survive
      Rules: The Cultist has been possessed by a Demon. Any Psychic character who uses their ability on the Possessed Cultist is Stunned, rendering them a gibbering mess for the next 24 hours. They may not post in the thread or use any psychic abilities until a full Game Day and Night has passed. A Possessed cultist is immune to a Warlock's Hex.
    Victory: Cult Wins
  

[Org]

Maybe a Vampire that is an Alien instead of regular undead-ish vampires?

[CobaltKobold]

Ummm...hmm. It seems too crunch-y for the ASci to need to grab a psychic human, but I see the balance reasons. I sort of favor "one each: human, psychic (any), scum, 3rd-party"

[RedWarrior0]

I like M.P's suggestion about the scientist. Possibilities should not be public, however. It adds to the mystery. They might be "abduct three town-aligned find or protect roles" for all the town knows. The problem would be that the Scientist can throw off the balance depending on goal. I'm thinking maybe 5 or 6 "Scientist" roles, each with a different weight and each with a different goal.

Also, one possible game-break: What happens if the town finally realizes that scum are more likely to get the really powerful roles (same weight over less players)?

[Mr.Person]

Also, one possible game-break: What happens if the town finally realizes that scum are more likely to get the really powerful roles (same weight over less players)?

Then the scum should fakeclaim powerful roles.

[Kashyyk]

THe possessed and Charismatic Cultists look identical to me. Was that intentional or did I miss something?

[Mephansteras]

Possessed cultist has been updated.

[Leafsnail]

Could we add the Werewolf/ Monster Hunter to possible changes?  Also, the proposed changes/ possible changes things in the OPs seem a bit confusing...

[Mephansteras]

What about it is confusing?