Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Mr.Person]

There is one advantage with the telepath seeing the 'used' role:

Someone claims "I, a guardian, protected soandso last night".  Telepath, however, saw them as "Survive".  Telepath just caught a lie.

Even "I tried to protect but was roleblocked" gets ruined since the telepath still sees them as Protect if they did just that.

Thus while the telepath gets some means to read the role, their TRUE power is to see what people are DOING during the night.  Honestly, the detective is for "What role am I"  Telepath is for "What did I do".

We could always just do it the Mafiachat way and turn it into "you see if they do an action or not" like Mafiachat's 'Watcher'.  I'm giving the telepath more power than that and it wasn't exactly weak as it was.

Good points. However, that's made me rethink, maybe the Telepath should be more like "What can I do?" instead of "What did I do?". That's making me rethink the idea of "Different actions and techs give different results". I just wanted to weaken the Telepath a little bit, not change the role a whole bunch. Besides, what goal does a player have if they're an Agent Seeker who both used a Scanner and contacted a player? That kind of thing needs to be dealt with BEFORE the changes get enacted.

Watcher is a good add.

Do remember that a seeker winning is like a town death: minus one non-dopp vote.

It hasn't mattered, but it could.
Telepath thoughts:
1. I like the present fluff/crunch melding for all the roles, telepath included.
2. I think the telepath working only on a 'used' role makes them too weak
3. the present "kill" result is waaaay too strong, since it gets the main antitown: Exterminator, Scum.

So yeah, some manner of telepath-miller abilities seems about right for me. I think the reason there's still only 'protect' and no 'manipulate' is that else, your protects are all good.

Enchanter gets better for both sides if they work instead like a Secret [daypick] Motivational Voter- thatis, they can secretly change who their second vote is on during the day (including nobody/themselves)

Actually, the Dopp Seeker is already a mafia-ally, so if one ever got to lylo, the smart thing for the player to do would be to claim and vote no lynch. Continue doing so until either the town mislynches or you get to 3p, there's no lynch, and you win.

There really needs to be a role that gets "Protect" as a goal but isn't actually protecting anyone. How about some straight mafia-ally? Doppleganger Surveyor and Cult Surveyor? Should probably get no tech slots at all, since they have an even easier time than the Dopp Seeker and Cult Seeker.

[CobaltKobold]

by seeker I meant Agent seeker, sorry.

Dopp/cult-hunter can be (somewhat) protown because if they get it right, it's a 1-1 trade, which mafia do not like.

I was thinking "Hey, don't we need Reporter millers?" But we have the psychics(and techies) for that, and it's good.

I'm pretty sure you can't use tech and your baserole samenight.

[dakarian]

Good points. However, that's made me rethink, maybe the Telepath should be more like "What can I do?" instead of "What did I do?". That's making me rethink the idea of "Different actions and techs give different results". I just wanted to weaken the Telepath a little bit, not change the role a whole bunch. Besides, what goal does a player have if they're an Agent Seeker who both used a Scanner and contacted a player? That kind of thing needs to be dealt with BEFORE the changes get enacted.

Watcher is a good add.

That's where we differ.  I DO want to alter the telepath.  Detective is already there for the 'what can I do" question, while the Agent answers "What side am I on".  To have the telepath answer the same question is to then ask "Why bother with the telepath at all?"  If the telepath does the same things as the detective, then just allow more detectives. 

So, I'm asking to change the telepath completely.  We have a "What side am I on".  We have a "What can I do".  We even have a "Where did I do".  We DON'T have a "What have I done".  AKA:

Agent finds: "I am pro-town"
Detective finds: "I am a Guardian"
Reporter finds: "I went to Litia's house"
Telepath should find: "I protected someone"

Right now Telepath does :"I'm a protective role"  A weaker detective that's not in as much danger.  Thanks to the 'kill' aspect, they also are an agent that gets some false negatives.  They don't really do what the two roles don't do.

Telepath CAN play as a detective/reporter hybrid as said, but the detective can't see if you DID use your skill and the reporter can't see what you did when you went to someone.  It solves the imbalance problem it has, and it gives information no one else can give. 

There really needs to be a role that gets "Protect" as a goal but isn't actually protecting anyone. How about some straight mafia-ally? Doppleganger Surveyor and Cult Surveyor? Should probably get no tech slots at all, since they have an even easier time than the Dopp Seeker and Cult Seeker.

Why?  The operative being seen 'protecting' is so rare it's maddening AND it's not hard for him to just claim Bodyguard, since we have 3 of the roles around already.  Otherwise, they have an easy time finding bodyguards and guardians...which only partially help since it's very common for both to show up on town and dopp side.  It isn't overpowering for the telepath to find a guardian, so they don't need a 'protection miller' to mess that up.

[Mr.Person]

Because there shouldn't be any certainty that just because you found "Protect", there's protection running around. If that's what you want to see, just have the Telepath report back the name of the action the player can do. That just saves time, really. If they don't have an action, just report back "No strong desires"

Is that what you want?

[dakarian]

You're worried about the 'doc' defense? 

Meh... well, then the 'manipulate' roles can become 'protect'. 

The idea of the stun orb being confused with the guardian is silly but...not like I've ever been turned away by 'silly'.

Watcher still gets 'survive' though.  Just make the Modulator a nightly thing instead of a one time use and there you go.

[Leafsnail]

Watcher still gets 'survive' though.  Just make the Modulator a nightly thing instead of a one time use and there you go.

I don't think he would, to be honest.  There are easier ways to pull a lynch than to waste a tech slot...

[Mephansteras]

Ok, been pondering things.

Here are my current thoughts on changes for next round:

1) Drop Scientist down to 1 tech slot
2) Modify weights of aliens to better reflect their role in the game
3) Change Mind Control Ray to: Once per game you can take over someone's mind. During the Next Day & Night you choose who they will vote for at the end of the day and who their night target will be (if they have no night role, you just get to determine their vote)
4) Change Telepath to detect a player's current Goal rather then a static goal.  Current Goal is determined by Night Actions and Active powers. The returned goal can be 'Survive','Kill','Find','Protect'. Tech only comes into play if it is being used that night, and Actions override tech (So an Exterminator using a Stun Orb and Killing someone will return a 'Kill' result.)

List of Roles and Goals:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Role	Goal
Townsperson	Survive
Agent	Find if power is used
Detective	Find if power is used
Telepath	Find if power is used
Guardian	Protect if power is used
War Vet	Kill if power is active
Heroic Guard	Protect if power is used
Observent Guard	Protect if power is used
Vengful Guard	Protect if power is used
Mad Scientist	Based on tech
Medium	Survive
Enchanter	Survive
Warlock	Kill
Psychic Warden	Protect if power is used
Vigilante	Kill if Night Killing
Reporter	Find if power is used
Kook	Survive
Goth	Survive
Doppelganger	Kill if Night Killing
Leader	Kill if Night Killing
Advanced Doppelganger	Kill if Night Killing
Exterminator	Kill if Night Killing
Agent Seeker	Find if power is used
Doppelganger Hunter	Find if power is used
Cult Hunter	Find if power is used
Survivor	Survive
Operative	Based on power used
Scientist	Find if power is used
Watcher	Survive
Cult Leader	Kill if Night Killing
Cultist	Kill if Night Killing

Tech:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tech	Goal
Personal Shield	No Effect
Holoform Modulator	No Effect
Scanner	Find if used as the only action for that night
Deadman bomb	Kill
Assassin bot	No Effect
Mind Control Ray	Protect if used as the only action for that night
Intel	No Effect
Plasma Bomb	Kill if used
Stun Orb	Protect if used as the only action for that night
Stun Bomb	Protect if used
Human Tech	No Effect
Combat Camouflage	No Effect
Body Double	No Effect
Security System	Find
Sentry Guns	Kill
Snooper Bot	Find if used

[JanusTwoface]

3) Change Mind Control Ray to: Once per game you can take over someone's mind. During the Next Day & Night you choose who they will vote for at the end of the day and who their night target will be (if they have no night role, you just get to determine their vote)

Would this be changeable throughout the day?  If so, how would that work?  Would the Mind Controller PM you and then you publicly announce the changed vote?  It would add some work on your part during that one day, but not too terribly much, methinks.

Also, I'd still like to see some sort of Vampire role... It gets some of the cult mechanic without growing too quickly.  Also, you have to actively scum hunt because you cannot feed off of scum and if you don't feed you die...

(I'm partial to my original proposal, but some variant of that would be cool too.)

Also, it gives the possibility of some new effect in the game to keep things fresh.  Paranormal doesn't usually have that problem (it's lasted 10 rounds thus far), but just in case.  Anyways, that's my 2 cents worth.

[ToonyMan]

Wait, that's pretty awesome.  You have to scum hunt so you know who to avoid.

[Leafsnail]

Stun Bomb   Protect if used

Doesn't really matter, since the telepath will also be stuck in his bed .

And the mind control ray is interesting.  Will it silently do it, Vote Mafia style, or will the person be forced to announce a change in vote?  Could be interesting if someone fakeclaimed mind control to justify a dodgy vote switch.

I could see the Watcher picking that if it were like that.

[Mephansteras]

@Janus: Hmm. I think what I'll do is have the person doing the mind control PM me with how they want the vote. I'll then PM the controlled player to let them know of the forced change. While Mind Controlled, you cannot tell people that you are mind controlled or that the votes are not yours. If the mind controlled player has not posted by the end of the day, I will place the MCd vote for them. But the more confusion and paranoia I can cause, the better. Hehe.

As for the Vampire, I'm still interested in the idea. However, I don't want to change too much between games. So we'll deal with the current balancing issues for the next round and new Paranormal stuff can be brought in after that.

[Leafsnail]

"No, I'm not scum!  I think the Confirmed Towny is scum!  That's why I'm voting him!  ARGH!!!"

[JanusTwoface]

"No, I'm not scum!  I think the Confirmed Towny is scum!  That's why I'm voting him!  ARGH!!!"

[Leafsnail]

Even if it's not allowed to be claimed, "Maybe he's being mind controlled" could become a new way to explain crazy-as-fuck behaviour .

[JanusTwoface]

Or, in the case of ToonyMan, to potentially explain less unusual voting patterns...

Random comment of the day:
The maximum amount of time that the forums can track being logged in for is apparently somewhere between 5 and 6 days.  I've been at the 5 days and some odd hours for a couple of weeks now methinks...