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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Mephansteras]

I think I'll leave it alone. The daykill is actually SUPER powerful, as I think about it. Especially for the dopps, since they can use it at the last minute to swing a vote away from someone without anyone knowing who did it or necessarily why.

[Leafsnail]

Do you have to reserve to get into the next round, or do you just let anyone in?

Anyway, I like the exterminator most - he seems to closest to "Chaotic neutral"   .

[Mephansteras]

Do you have to reserve to get into the next round, or do you just let anyone in?

Oh, I'll let pretty much anyone in. You just have to sign up when the next round starts.

[Leafsnail]

Couple of questions on the rules -


If a characters role involves dying to activate their ability (Bodyguard/ Warlock/ etc.) do they still win if their side wins, even if they're dead?

When you say "maximum one mind shield to each side" does that include the various aliens as each to their own side?  Do the exterminator and his minions count as a side?

If the scientist/ dopp hunter/ agent seeker dissapear having fufilled their objective, does this mean the Exterminator can no longer win (as they aren't dead)?  Or does being removed from the game count, from the exterminators point of view, as being dead?

Anyway, looks good.  Gonna play next round.

Sorta like

Uninformed majority vs. informed minority with extra ability vs. second informed minority who are slightly harder to detect vs. a bunch of people with different goals vs. a couple of aliens who have awesome abilities

[Mephansteras]

Answers:

1) You win if your side wins regardless of your personal state at the end. Alive, Abducted, Killed, it doesn't matter. Most aliens have specific win conditions that will say if they can still win if they die. It depends on the alien.

2) Yes, the Exterminator and his minions count as a side.

3) The Exterminator has to kill everyone to win. If an alien escapes, he has to kill everyone else and then hunt the alien down once the game is over. He still 'loses', but the players can imagine any outcome from that scenario they want.

[Leafsnail]

Cool.  It's interesting reading through the current thread, and thinking about possible motives for each player.  For instance, if a player says that he suspects someone of being a Dopp rather than just being scum, he may have accidentally outed himself as an Agent, and someone who is overly certain of someone's guilt may have accidentally outed themselves as psychic (either of these things being equivalent to painting a big sign on your house saying "Night kill me!").

Actually, it's quite interesting considering what to try and do if plonked down as any particular character, and what strategy you would take.  Also I've been trying to consider whether it would be a good idea to say that you have any role other than townie.  It would obviously be stupid to out yourself as scum or a high ranking townie, but how about something like War Vet?  This could be interpreted as trying to prevent a vigilante attack, however, and result in a lynching nonetheless.

Of course, a medium would be nearly useless to his team unless he outed himself.  However, this would make him a target for both mafias and possibly the exterminator, if he doesn't have any better leads.  Another problem is that a dead member of the scum team could read what is being told to the medium (if I've read the rules correctly) and pass this information to their own medium, if they also happen to have one.

I suppose the atmosphere in the private mafia chatrooms are a bit different from the thread, since they all know they are with people they can trust (well, except in the Doppelganger camp, who will be painfully aware that there's a 50% chance of them housing an alien operative).

Actually, I have one more question, one that could be potentially quite important for the person who is exterminator:

Controlled Doppelganger
Victory: All non-Exterminator aligned players are dead or Doppelgangers if the Exterminator is dead.

Does that mean that the doppelganger needs to kill all the other Doppelgangers in the group if the exterminator dies, or does it mean that the controlled doppelganger has his goal changed to "Doppelganger win" when the exterminator dies?  The second seems problematic, as he could simply direct the night kill at the exterminator and become a normal doppelganger.

[Mephansteras]

His goal is to have the Exterminator win, with a secondary goal of having the dopps win if the Exterminator. He could also betray the Exterminator, you're right.

Hmm...thoughts on this? I'm thinking of making him lose if he betrays the Exterminator, or maybe have him die outright himself if he does that. (Alien impants or something to prevent this type of betrayal). Mostly because the Exterminator has a hard enough time winning without worrying about his own teammate turning on him.

[webadict]

His goal is to have the Exterminator win, with a secondary goal of having the dopps win if the Exterminator. He could also betray the Exterminator, you're right.

Hmm...thoughts on this? I'm thinking of making him lose if he betrays the Exterminator, or maybe have him die outright himself if he does that. (Alien impants or something to prevent this type of betrayal). Mostly because the Exterminator has a hard enough time winning without worrying about his own teammate turning on him.

Well, I'd say it's a pretty bad situation as it is. I'd never want it in a game. It's a mafia in the mafia...

[Leafsnail]

I quite like it.  The Dopp spy doesn't have special abilities beyond what other dopps can have (can they have special roles?  otherwise the dopp group would know to suspect only the normal dopps, and there are probably only 1 or 2 of these), but he can see all the dopps.  And this means the exterminator can take out the most valuable members of that team.

The problem at the moment is that the controlled dopp could just say "Hey, guys, I'm being controlled by the exterminator, person x.  Would you mind taking him out so I could win with you?", and could do this at any point if he decides that the dopps have a better chance of winning than the exterminator.  As exterminator, you might even consider killing your own spy.

So I guess that "Exterminator dies" would have to be a lose condition, or they could still win if they are the last man standing (not likely at all, of course).

[Alexhans]

what may sound cool may probably be really annoying when playing...

Think about all the elements of a game before adding such aberrations.

[Leafsnail]

I see, Alex, although the suggestion is basically just to stop the controlled Dopp from backstabbing the exterminator.

By the way -

There can only be 1 of each Alien Role in a game. An Exterminator can have either an Operative or a Controlled Doppelganger working with him, not both.

Does that mean there's always one of each alien (except the operative, who may be replaced by the controlled dopp) or does it mean there can be a maximum of one of each?

[Mephansteras]

Max one of each. We'd have to have a huge game to have all of the aliens in play, since they're limited to a maximum of 20% of the players. And aliens aren't guaranteed to be in a game at all.

Ok, I'm going to put in a clause that prevents the Controlled dopp from betraying the Exterminator. It just sounds like it'll cause too many problems if that's a viable win tactic for him.

[SniHjen]

Or just remove the Operative AND the Controlled Doppelganger.

then add that players kidnapped by the scientist counts as "killed" as far as the exterminator is concerned.

[Leafsnail]

Or just remove the Operative AND the Controlled Doppelganger.

Even with his night kill and two tech slots, I'm not sure if the Exterminator would have a chance of winning if he is completely on his own.

The clause with the controlled dopp looks good.  I suppose you can give the Dopp forums and some pms a scan to make sure the controlled dopp hasn't been telling his team mates to attack the exterminator.

The current game has (had) 23 players, so I suppose that means there are (were) up to 4 aliens in play.

[SniHjen]

My point was that he could work togeather with the alien scientist.