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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[JoshuaFH]

Actually, it goes:

Doppleganger Hunter
Roleblocker
Protector
Investigator
Nightkiller

Event Order: Looks like there is strong sentiment to have a everything predetermined. Therefore, the order of events is as follows:

Role-blockers
Protectors
Investigators (Includes Dopp Seeker)
Night Kills (The Paranoid War Vet (or equivalent) is sort of an exception, in that he'll kill anyone who targets them on THEIR turn, rather than his)

[NUKE9.13]

Um, people.
The agent seeker is not a second AWV.
If he targets a dopp, both he and the dopp die.
The reason I offered CJ my services as a pro-town killer is that I chose the shield as my item (which I never actually mentioned to anyone, except CJ (I thought it might be useful to keep that secret from the dopps)). This meant I could safely attack a doppelganger once.
I think that as a third-party role the agent seeker is an excellent one. As the exterminator, you are doomed. As the dopp seeker, it's a matter of luck. As the survivor, well, you know, survivor gambit. But the agent seeker has a challenge, which he can be completed by using strategy. I chose not to kill someone night one. Sure, I could have hit archangel first go, but I risked so much more- I could be reporter'd, or if my role became known, people would lynch me because I went around killing people at random, and, more importantly, if the agent/me dies, I become a townie. The ghost is overpowered, so yeah, so was I. But if there had been no ghost, I would have enjoyed the search for the agent.
For the ghost issue I would vote option two- with the condition that the ghost cannot be interacted with. So no one can find out which one he is without giving him information and seeing what the dopps do.

[Twiggie]

i vote for the twisted spirit one!

[Mr.Person]

What if the ghost is pro-town if the dopps or a exterminator kill him or pro-dopp and pro-exterminator if the town kills or lynches him or her?

That looks confusing. What I mean is, what if the ghost joined the opposite team from their killer? Finally gives the town a chance to infiltrate the mafia with a bluff, if they want to try that.

[NUKE9.13]

What if the ghost is pro-town if the dopps or a exterminator kill him or pro-dopp and pro-exterminator if the town kills or lynches him or her?

That looks confusing. What I mean is, what if the ghost joined the opposite team from their killer? Finally gives the town a chance to infiltrate the mafia with a bluff, if they want to try that.

But then everyone knows on which team the ghost is.

[Twiggie]

What if the ghost is pro-town if the dopps or a exterminator kill him or pro-dopp and pro-exterminator if the town kills or lynches him or her?

That looks confusing. What I mean is, what if the ghost joined the opposite team from their killer? Finally gives the town a chance to infiltrate the mafia with a bluff, if they want to try that.

i think that this solution is not extreme enough. if the dopps kill him, we'll have exactly the same problem

[Mr.Person]

What if the ghost is pro-town if the dopps or a exterminator kill him or pro-dopp and pro-exterminator if the town kills or lynches him or her?

That looks confusing. What I mean is, what if the ghost joined the opposite team from their killer? Finally gives the town a chance to infiltrate the mafia with a bluff, if they want to try that.

But then everyone knows on which team the ghost is.

Yeah, in many cases, there would be no question as to which side the Ghost is on. 1 kill during the night? Must be pro-town. Lynched? Must be pro-dopp.

The only other alternatives I can think of is making it so the Ghost's win condition becomes killing the Ghost's killer or having a Ghost-killing role, like an Exorciser, or making it so the Ghost can only communicate anonymously via A_Fey_Dwarf reporting "Strange Moanings saying '...'".

I think the Ghost should just be cut unless somebody has any more good ideas. The Ghost kinda makes the game unfun, no matter which side the Ghost is on. Being invincible isn't in the spirit of Mafia.

[Servant Corps]

That looks confusing. What I mean is, what if the ghost joined the opposite team from their killer? Finally gives the town a chance to infiltrate the mafia with a bluff, if they want to try that.

I would like this, if combined with a seperate idea that the Ghost can only vote, not talk.

[Mephansteras]

Twisted spirit sounds MIGHTY FINE if you ask me. Not being able to tell means that roleclaiming to him is a liability, not an advantage. Plus, a twisted spirit would have to put up a pretty awesome masquerade to lead the dopps to victory, since he wouldn't know who he was or vice-versa.

One thing I found odd: in the order of priority schema that Meph laid out, the priorities of actions go as follows:

Roleblockers
protectors
investigators (includes dopp seeker)
Nightkills (includes agent seeker)

The problem here is that it creates a logical paradox in one very specific scenario, which is that a dopp protector, abducted by a dopp seeker, is still able to protect, despite not physically being there.

Also, Meph, can you re-elaborate on the difference between an alien operative and scientist?

One the subject of the order of actions, let's just take it as rules for resolving conflicts. It does not strictly reflect when the events occur.

As for the Operative and Scientist:

The Operative is allied to another Alien. Its role is to aid the other Alien in it's goal. It will leave with the other alien when it's goal is complete, or if the other alien dies it becomes a survivor.

The Scientist is it's own role. It seeks to analyzes all of the people is the town (human, dopp, or alien). Once it's research is done, it has won and leaves.

[webadict]

Take out the Ghost. Don't add it in there. Leave it alone. If there's an Operative, it's going to be for the Exterminator. He needs it badly.

Take out the Alien Scientist. I can pull together some probabilities to show he has a statistically LOW chance of being able to win. The ONLY way for him to win is for him to announce Day 1 he's the Scientist and would people please pm me to tell me who's going to die so I don't ever scan them?

What's the Child do?

[Mephansteras]

Child: One of the remaining people in the town is a just a child. People find lynching a child very difficult to do, even if they know the child is a doppelganger. Therefore, the Child takes 1 extra vote to Lynch, and is not lynched on a tie (even including the extra vote requirement). However, the Child's Role is known to everyone at the start of the game. There can only be one Child per game. [human][dopp]
     As an example, if the Child has 3 votes and someone else has 2, the Child is not lynched (the tally counts as 2 v 2 instead). Since that would be a tie, the Child is not lynched and the other person is instead.

[NUKE9.13]

Child: One of the remaining people in the town is a just a child. People find lynching a child very difficult to do, even if they know the child is a doppelganger. Therefore, the Child takes 1 extra vote to Lynch, and is not lynched on a tie (even including the extra vote requirement). However, the Child's Role is known to everyone at the start of the game. There can only be one Child per game. [human][dopp]
     As an example, if the Child has 3 votes and someone else has 2, the Child is not lynched (the tally counts as 2 v 2 instead). Since that would be a tie, the Child is not lynched and the other person is instead.

If there are equal amounts of townies and mafia at the end of a day and there is a pro-town child, does the game continue?

[Rysith]

Ok, Ghost is unquestionably overpowered. Here are some thoughts I have on how to change the Ghost.

Option 1) Remove the role entirely
Option 2) Add another Ghost role: Twisted Spirit. The Twisted Spirit changes alignment upon death and seeks to help the Doppelgangers win. There will be no way to determine what type of Ghost is in play. Only one Ghost can show up per game.
Option 3) Switch the Ghost's ability. Instead of being able to talk but not Vote, the Ghost will be able to Vote but not post or PM people.

Preferences? Other thoughts?

I like option 2, personally. The thing that made the ghost overpowered was trust + invulnerability, and negating the trust seems like it would go a long way towards preventing the ghost from becoming the center of the fastest-assembled town base ever.

Another idea would be to prevent the ghost from sending (and possibly receiving) PMs. Thus, the coordination abilities would be significantly hampered by needing to happen in the open, and might be combined with the twisted spirit in interesting ways.

[Org]

Make it so you cant investigate it either.

[Frelock]

Another idea would be to prevent the ghost from sending (and possibly receiving) PMs. Thus, the coordination abilities would be significantly hampered by needing to happen in the open, and might be combined with the twisted spirit in interesting ways.

I'm for this suggestion.  It would prevent a firm town base from forming around the ghost, and it would be nearly impossible for people to roleclaim to them.  The biggest problem last game was that CJ was simply handing out the orders, and people followed, and then trusted him completely when he told them other people's results.  This makes it so the ghost can still be very active in the game, but limits how much trust he can put in other people.  The worst situation that could happen would be a ghost being contacted by the town base before death, and he could effectively prevent the lynching of any of the base's members.  However, this is counteracted by the fact that it's possible to infiltrate a town base, and the ghost wouldn't have any private contact with the base afterward.

Twisted spirit is alright too.