Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Dariush]

Well, hypnotism is something that requires physical interaction with the victim.

And psyyyychically wrapping someone in invisible chains is just plain impossible.

As for the guerrilla, I'd nix the idea. It might seem fun, but it's more like you'd simply just make the same item over and over. You're better off with all the items premade, but even then... it doesn't have a place other than as an Alien. But, what would the goal be? If you don't have that planned out, the Alien can't be played well. Plus, the Operative plays similar to this.

Why not town? We've already got scientists who can manufacture snooper bots, after all. Maybe we can even ditch the killing item, or maybe put restrictions on the number of items of each kind that can be manufactured.

[webadict]

Well, hypnotism is something that requires physical interaction with the victim.

And psyyyychically wrapping someone in invisible chains is just plain impossible.

As for the guerrilla, I'd nix the idea. It might seem fun, but it's more like you'd simply just make the same item over and over. You're better off with all the items premade, but even then... it doesn't have a place other than as an Alien. But, what would the goal be? If you don't have that planned out, the Alien can't be played well. Plus, the Operative plays similar to this.

Why not town? We've already got scientists who can manufacture snooper bots, after all. Maybe we can even ditch the killing item, or maybe put restrictions on the number of items of each kind that can be manufactured.

The point is a hypnotist is the wrong occupation title for your chosen action. I'd choose something else. But, even then, Meph tends to dislike redirections.

Guerrilla. We DO already have Scientists. So, why do we need that guy? What does he bring to the game that they do not? The ability to choose your item? So... he's more powerful than a regular Scientist. But, then what fun is that for the Scientist? It basically removes his spot in the game.

[Dariush]

The difference is that it's psychic, it can better adapt to situations, it's items are weaker and there're more of them.

[Bookthras]

From my point of view, this is all unnecessary. All of it, hypnotism, guerrilla, lynchers, new race, the works.

Paranormal as it is has just about the perfect balance of factions, roles, consistency, flavour, powers and counters, and so on, to make it the single most fun game around. Sure, some polish here and there, say on the tech list or balance weights or whatnot, could always be done... but change for the sake of change? Gods no.

It ain't broken. Don't fuck with it.

[Mephansteras]

A lot of those ideas basically went over to Supernatural. I've got redirectors (Illusionists), multiple possible scum factions, and some of the more unusual win-cons. And...it's a lot less popular than Paranormal. Nor did people like it as much when I had more stuff like that in this game, which is what prompted me to break off stuff into the Supernatural format to begin with.

Not to say that I haven't been thinking about tweaking things a it.

I have been thinking about something like the Stasis idea, since I'd like the Combat Camouflage tech's Abduction result to be more useful. Having more than one thing that makes someone vanish for a day would be good.

Other than that, having a few more Alien types could be interesting. I'm still not all that happy with the Spore Spreader, so it's up for review. And the tech, as usual, could stand some more balancing.

The biggest change I'm thinking about at the moment is less mechanical and more administrative. I need to get the flavor locked down and in the rules. This last game has really driven home just how much of the game is based on knowing what the flavor means, which puts newer players at a huge disadvantage since that kind of thing isn't really written down anywhere.

[Dariush]

Other than that, having a few more Alien types could be interesting. I'm still not all that happy with the Spore Spreader, so it's up for review. And the tech, as usual, could stand some more balancing.

Right now, my only gripe with the existing techs is the absolute, utter uselessness of Psychic Pulser. Replacing it with a stasis chamber seems good both from balancing standpoint and from flavor (since it's cutting edge, after all).

The biggest change I'm thinking about at the moment is less mechanical and more administrative. I need to get the flavor locked down and in the rules. This last game has really driven home just how much of the game is based on knowing what the flavor means, which puts newer players at a huge disadvantage since that kind of thing isn't really written down anywhere.

Naaaaah. I like the wildly varying flavor. What you should do IMO is specify (in bold lettering) what caused that death or other. For example:

"Book's body looks like it was damaged by some cutting-edge technology. This may suggest Exterminator activity or some other plasma-based weaponry."

And on that note. To make flavor more deep, I suggest giving players non-game-influencing publicly known roles. For example, a setup of a space shuttle may have every player with his own role around the ship (i.e. technician, medic, pilot and so forth), with different players giving different remarks about events and flavor taking different routes depending on the order of deaths. For example, lynching the pilot would cause the ship to lose it's course, the guards would be the ones executing people and so forth.

[Hapah]

I think Dar's got the right idea for kill flavor (make it a little more explicit so I don't have to bug the hell out of you like I have this game, it's no fun for either of us!). I'm not sure that I'd like the second part of his post though; seems like a lot of work.

And for Spore Spreader: I'm not sure what issues you have with it, but it seems conflicted. You want to win with town, but the only way you can is if you infect them with spores, which makes them weaker. Plus it's not so much a Spore Spreader as a Spore hope-you-don't-get-NK'd. Maybe if it had some way to "shoot spores" at people, and/or Dopps/Aliens were resistant but not immune? Maybe give the spores an incubation period to compensate? Would maybe make it sorta like a Doomspeaker, as you'd have to end the game before everything got spored all to hell.

[Bookthras]

I also think this discussion should wait until the current game is over.

[Mephansteras]

Well, flavor is still going to vary a good bit according to the specifics of the game, but I'd have flavor guidelines in the role descriptions. So the Exterminator would have a flavor section saying something like 'Kills are done using high-tech plasma weapons or knives'. Something like that.

Hapah, yeah, that's pretty much the issue with the SS. He's kind of like a Jester, but he actually wants town to win, so getting lynched is often a bad idea. Making him more like a Doomspeaker is an option.

[Dariush]

I also think this discussion should wait until the current game is over.

You're just butthurt.

Also, what does doomspeaker actually do? I've never been clear on that point.

[Hapah]

Nah, he's right, it probably should wait until the game wraps up.

[Leafsnail]

Also, what does doomspeaker actually do? I've never been clear on that point.

If you're talking about the #mafia version, yeah it's pretty much impossible to work out unless you ask one of the admins.  Daz told me that it works based on the "doom percentage" that banshees use - if you go up to "100% doom" you die.

Every night when a doomspeaker is alive two random (non-doomspeaker) targets receive 50% doom (it can be the same person both times, in which case that player just dies).  So basically people just die randomly in the night while the Doomspeaker is alive.  Has the advantages of being unblockable, untrackable and the occasional double kill but the disadvantages of not being able to choose who to kill and sometimes wasting doom on people who later die to lynches or whatever anyway.  It's a pretty luck based and annoying role.

What it's come to mean around Bay 12 is an independent role that wins automatically after a certain number of days have passed.

[Bookthras]

The biggest change I'm thinking about at the moment is less mechanical and more administrative. I need to get the flavor locked down and in the rules.

Now that the game is over, my two cents on this: I agree it should be written down, but I don't like the bolded, explicit suggestion above. Instead I suggest adding "Flavour elements" to the role descriptions, like so:

Vigilante
    Race: Human/Doppelganger
    Goal: Kill
    Rules: [...]
    Flavour elements: Kills with bullets. Visits target.
    Victory: Town/Doppelgangers win

Psychic Warden
    [Psychic]
    Race: Human/Doppelganger
    Goal: Protect
    Rules: [...]
    Flavour elements: Blocks with psychic chains that constrict and force unconsciousness. Doesn't visit target.
    Victory: Town/Doppelgangers win

Exterminator
    Race: Alien
    Goal: Kill
    Rules: [...]
    Flavour elements: Kills with energy weapons, plasma technology, or knives. Visits target.
    Tech: 1 Medium and 1 Large Tech Slot
    Victory: All non-Exterminator aligned players are dead


...likewise for the tech listing: human bot kills with bullets, morning kill's target is clearly freshly dead; alien bot kills with energy weapons; mind shield blocking an action on you "tingles" (or "tickles", I forget) and so on.

Plus a note next to the general rules stating that flavour is significant, and will vary from game to game, but will always contain those elements to help provide clues as to the actions taken.


Also, some more detailed notes on when one knows things (like being protected, or mind shield blocking an action, and so on) would be good, as well as the Warden A blocks Warden B blocks Player C thing (and similar collision cases).

[Toaster]

I think Book has the right idea- either put them in the role description or make a public-knowledge Flavor Guide.

This is the same issue I had with Roguelike (and I said as such to him via PM.)  You have to be careful with what flavor gives away.

[Mephansteras]

That's exactly what I was thinking, Book.

So...Deadman Bomb. What are people's thoughts on it? Too random, yes. But what's the best way to fix it? Make the targets chosen by the user? That's more balanced, but a bit anti-thematic. Bombs aren't that precise.