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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Book]

For the Spore Spreader, I'm thinking something like this:
The actual Spore Spreader is a Jester. They need to get lynched to activate their spores. (Night kills no longer trigger it) Two random players of any race are then converted into Spore Carriers. The carriers are Survivors who win if either of them makes it to the end. Carriers are not far enough along in the spore process yet to trigger the spores and need to survive to get to that point. Not sure if the carriers would keep their roles or not.

I actually like the spore spreaders as they are now. Maybe at most change their wincon to be a general survivor (only one SS alive needed for all to win), not winning just with a town victory (it doesn't make much sense for them winning with all humans dead, but flavour could be that they remain dormant in the town waiting for the next batch of settlers or something).

I also like that the dopps and aliens are immune; people seem to think this needs to be toned down; but say we had about a 50% chance of infection success if dopp. A dopp kills the SS and if infected, they turn SS immediately: the dopps lose a team member, who could even out them to the thread! They need to kill him at once... but if they do, they have a 50% chance of being infected themselves! Troublesome. I don't like at all the idea of a modkill clause for revealing knowledge though; it seems unfair and contrary to the spirit of the game, plus risks creative players finding ways to do it discreetly. Maybe make only aliens susceptible to SS infection? The SSs are aliens anyway...

I feel we haven't given the SS a fair shake yet. Sure, Dariush didn't do a stellar job of it this game, but hey... (no offence) don't write them out just yet. I'd very much like to play as one in their current incarnation.

I'm also thinking of adding in another dopp killing role. Less powerful than the Vig and it would use the regular dopp kill flavor. Something to make the Exterminator's camo useful for actually doing a dopp-style kill. Right now that screams Exterminator just as much as a plasma kill does. Might be a one-shot kill or something like that.

I'm very much in favour. Flavour for it could be fun... like a dopp-equivalent of a pet dog, who is unleashed and goes to kill on his own, then dies or wanders off...

Can the script simply give the dopps one less teammate if they get a vig, or is the dopp count fairly static?

I don't think that'd work. You could make a guess then if the dopps have a vig based on the number of pods in the opening flavour.


Meph: I'd like to also address the balance of the kooks. At the risk of proving Wuba right, I think it is broken to have a guaranteed at least one kook in a 13 people game. In my opinion, in a game of that size it should be about equally probable to have zero, one or two actual kooks. There is too much danger of kooks becoming confirmed townies just by virtue of claiming, which is not fun at all, and makes the dopp fakeclaim option a more dangerous gambit than it needs to be.

[Jim Groovester]

Thoughts? I'd like to have at least 1 neutral scientist, 1 pro-town and 1 anti-town. With no way to determine what the scientist is really doing it'll make deals much harder.

Why not just give the Xenozoologist random capture goals from a variety of different categories?

Dopps, aliens, humans, role categories, abilities, etc. etc. Categories can overlap, requiring more and more specific captures.

With random capture goals everyone will still be wary of him. And I think it would be more fun the Xenozoologist to get dealt a random hand than a predetermined one.

[Mephansteras]

My issue with the current Spore Spreader is that it's a horrible jester. By getting lynched the SS is actually hurting its chances at winning, since at best it converts two townies who then lose their powers and the town is just being put at a huge disadvantage. It's a self-defeating role.

Note that the proposed change removes the spread effect past the initial SS. The carriers become survivors but can't infect anyone themselves.

The idea of the Carrier becoming an ally-survivor of whatever side they were part of is interesting, though, since a dopp-ally won't betray them but is still slightly countering the power of the team by not being willing to die for them.

Kooks are also not at all guaranteed. We've had a fair number of them show up, but I've had quite a few balance tests where they don't show up at all. Might be worth adding some more abilities to help round things out, though. I'll have to ponder it. Or just not take set-ups that include kooks quite as often.


@Jim: Possible, but it'd take a bit more manual balancing to do it that way. Having the variants lets me ensure that the overall set-up is balanced in the script. And as long as there are possible goal sets that are for/against every group it's the same effect on the game. No one can trust the Xenozoologist because no one can know for sure what he wants to grab.

[Argembarger]

I really like that spore spreader concept. It's a bit more believable: an insidious alien invasion; rather than just... some kind of zombie jester apocalypse

[Book]

Note that the proposed change removes the spread effect past the initial SS. The carriers become survivors but can't infect anyone themselves.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this. I like the potential snow-ball effect of multiple waves of infection. But yeah, I get your point about it being a horrible jester and horrible for town as well... but I still like them. With a bit of tweaking, after a couple of lucky days it could be an outright Dopps vs. Spore Spreaders fight only! With allies and stuff! It sounds like fun, I say.

The idea of the Carrier becoming an ally-survivor of whatever side they were part of is interesting, though, since a dopp-ally won't betray them but is still slightly countering the power of the team by not being willing to die for them.

I can get behind this, yes. Ally is better than threat of modkill. But then if they get lynched, I'd still like it if they could spread the infection further.

Kooks are also not at all guaranteed. We've had a fair number of them show up, but I've had quite a few balance tests where they don't show up at all. Might be worth adding some more abilities to help round things out, though. I'll have to ponder it. Or just not take set-ups that include kooks quite as often.

Oh I'd like so much to quote you on this every game, when people start wetting themselves over every kook must claim RIGHT NOW or be scum foreveeeer! or there has always been at least one kook; there will always be at least one kook!

I'd still prefer it if they were less frequent, though.

[Mephansteras]

So, basic timing discussion.

Current rules are 48 hour days, with two optional 24 hour extensions. Nights don't have a specific timeline at the moment, but I try to keep them under 48 hours. Weekends are ignored for timing purposes, since I can't always be on during the weekends to actually run the game.

We have a few options here:

We can make no changes, of course.

We can extend the basic day length to 72 hours.

We can change extensions to 48 hours.

We can remove the cap on extensions.

I'll make a poll.

[Dariush]

IMO make day 72-hour and allow one 24-hour extension.

Edit: you forgot 'other, explain in thread' variant in poll.

[Think0028]

Extend day to 72 hours, change extension to 48 hours, and still allow only 2 extensions. This'll raise the max length of a day by 3 days, still prevent infinite-extend days, and make it less likely to waste an entire extension. I might be willing to do 48 hour initial day if we have 48 hour extension.

[Toaster]

Extend day to 72 hours, change extension to 48 hours, and still allow only 2 extensions. This'll raise the max length of a day by 3 days, still prevent infinite-extend days, and make it less likely to waste an entire extension. I might be willing to do 48 hour initial day if we have 48 hour extension.

I support this.

[Mephansteras]

IMO make day 72-hour and allow one 24-hour extension.

Edit: you forgot 'other, explain in thread' variant in poll.

Ok, added in that option.

[webadict]

I'd give support toward 72 + ONE 48 if there were no replacements necessary. Unfortunately, you don't enforce scum thread posting, meaning we have no idea whether someone is actually lurking or scum lurking, meaning we WANT to extend because of lurking. Removing the ability for scum to lurk in QT would get rid of a lot of problems, and since it's not even a real strategy, it's not necessary anyhow.

[Think0028]

I would also support the one 48 hour extension idea, if 72 + 2x48 doesn't get through.

[Darvi]

72h days, 2 48h extensions. I support the extension capping because extending ad nauseam can get a bit... well... nauseating.

Oh hey Ninja-wuba suggested a single 48h extension. Even better. Too bad I already voted :/

[Dariush]

...72 hours+2 48-hour extensions is a week. A week for a single in-game day. Wouldn't THAT get a bit nauseating?

[Toaster]

Ignoring weekends for a moment:

Current:  Min/Max day length is 2/4 days.
72+2x48:  Min/Max day length is 3/7 days.

I really don't think that three more RL days is that bad, especially if discussion is active.  You don't have to ask for a second extension, remember, and there's always a shorten.


Dariush:  What about this game?