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Total Members Voted: 25

[Zathras]

Um... Here's a standard question: Agent Op scans Agent on First Night. If he's a Dopp, it's a free lynch [only if his claim is believed!]. If he's a Human, he has about a 1% chance to be turned into a Dopp later. Either way, it's either a freelynch or masons.
It's kinda like the Disciple of Truth.

Hmmm. I could have both Operatives only flip Operative on death. That would prevent the whole 'confirmed' human aspect, since the town now needs to worry about it being an Exterminator cover instead.

No, I think death roleflips need to remain honest (at least outside the bastard). If someone's scan results in a confirmed townie, and the claim is believed, then we have a confirmed townie: rejoice! It's a good thing. P17's town win notwithstanding, it's a tough enough game, and the Agent Op is town aligned; if he uses his tech to provide a town-favourable result, that's a good thing and consistent with his role and win condition. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.

[webadict]

Besides, Meph: If an Operative dies claiming someone was a Dopp Agent, wouldn't you believe them?

[Mephansteras]

Dopp Agent, of course. Human Agent...not so much.

But, yes, part of the Power of the Agent Operative is that they get a targeted scan on a known Agent (assuming they take a scanner, which is pretty much a given). Which, despite being a one-shot ability, is pretty powerful. I built that fact into the weight for it.

[Mr.Person]

Dopp Agent, of course. Human Agent...not so much.

But, yes, part of the Power of the Agent Operative is that they get a targeted scan on a known Agent (assuming they take a scanner, which is pretty much a given). Which, despite being a one-shot ability, is pretty powerful. I built that fact into the weight for it.

Why not? What fooled the scanner? A Dopp Agent can't get an Advanced Anti-tech Shield or Advanced Holoform Modulator. If an Agent Op says that player X is a Dopp and then dies, player X is a guaranteed Dopp. Same thing if that player is town.

This needs to be fixed. Confirmed townies are a definite no-go. Roleflip just "Operative". As long as all other roleflips remain truthy, then this one roleflip being incomplete is acceptable AFAIC.

To anyone arguing for Agent-Ops creating a confirmed townie: confirmed townies in a free-PM game are very, very bad. It skews the game very heavily in the town's favor and turns everything into "mindlessly follow the CT!". The game becomes very, very boring.

[Mephansteras]

Dopp Agent, of course. Human Agent...not so much.

But, yes, part of the Power of the Agent Operative is that they get a targeted scan on a known Agent (assuming they take a scanner, which is pretty much a given). Which, despite being a one-shot ability, is pretty powerful. I built that fact into the weight for it.

Why not? What fooled the scanner? A Dopp Agent can't get an Advanced Anti-tech Shield or Advanced Holoform Modulator. If an Agent Op says that player X is a Dopp and then dies, player X is a guaranteed Dopp. Same thing if that player is town.

I was saying that the town would trust an Exterminator Operative claim that they found a Dopp. But not that someone is necessarily town, since the Ext. Operative could be hiding the Exterminator that way.

[Leafsnail]

Seems like a bit of a silly idea.  Even if the exty survives the WIFOM lynch, they'll die to a doppelganger in the night.

[Mr.Person]

You're even more on the ball than I am. Hmm...

Course, the Exterminator Operative would have to be really lucky to be able to fakeclaim a true townie or Dopp Agent. Then again, he's fine with claiming his Exterminator is an Agent townie. All this means is that the Exterminator Op really doesn't have a chance to claim the truth to buy townie points and WIFOM the town with his death. I dislike this, so here's a few ways to make Extie Ops and Agent Ops more similar.

One way is to simply give all Agents anti-tech shields. A bit clunky, but it'd work. Of course, then nobody could use a Scanner on him, so I'm not a huge fan. Another would be to tell the Exterminator Op the identity of an Agent. I dislike this since I don't think Extie Ops should be finding out for free. The solution I like is to tell the Agent about all Operatives and let him selectively contact any Operatives he trusts. I suppose this would make the Agent an OP role (you can contact an Op and inspect him on the same player on the same night. Too busy and too powerful), the Agent's inspecting should probably be transfered to a new role.

[Toaster]

Why not? What fooled the scanner? A Dopp Agent can't get an Advanced Anti-tech Shield or Advanced Holoform Modulator. If an Agent Op says that player X is a Dopp and then dies, player X is a guaranteed Dopp. Same thing if that player is town.

Are you talking from scanner or agent?  Agent results are still skewed by Kooks, Dopp Leaders, and Holos.



Also, in the Bastanormal thread:

Exterminator
    Race: Alien
    Goal: Kill
    Rules: The doppelganger infestation is a danger to the Alien's people, and it and all traces of it must be wiped from the Earth. The Alien kills one person a night. The Alien wins when they and thier Operative (if there is one) are the only ones left alive. The Exterminator always has a natural Mind Shield or Anti-Tech Field (Player's choice).
    Tech: 1 Medium and 1 Large Tech Slot
    Victory: All non-Exterminator aligned players are dead

The underlined parts are contradictory.  I know you had clarified that the line by Victory is the correct (Exty wins if *everyone* dies), so you might want to reword.

[Mr.Person]

For extra dick points, do the same with Exties.

[Mephansteras]

@Toaster. Hmmm, yeah, I should fix that.

@Mr.Person. Not fond of those fixes. I'll have to keep thinking about it.

Did have an unrelated thought, though. Hivemind conversions...I'm thinking of doing two things to differentiate the Psychic and Tech versions. The Psychic version is an active (if home-based) night action, so the Hivemind could be blocked. The Tech version is an activated ability, so it can't be role-blocked. However, it can be protected against. I'm thinking that a standard sacrifice guard would get converted instead, while a Guardian wouldn't.

This makes the conversion a bit nicer than most cults, but then most cults don't lose/die if the cult leader dies.

[Toaster]

Since non-humans can't be converted, how would they react to each flavor of attempt?  Also, how would anti-tech fields and guards mix?  If your conversion target is guarded, whose anti-tech field would be used?

I do like the idea of making them subtly different, though.  Tech might be better as-is, because converting guards is pretty useful for the Hivemind.

[Mephansteras]

I would say whoever is getting converted would have to have the anti-tech field. So a guard without it could screw things up if they protected someone how has an anti-tech field.

[Mr.Person]

Then guards with an anti-tech field would need extra weight if there's a Hivemind in the game.

[Toaster]

Say an AT-fielded (or dopp) guard protects a regular human.  The attempt would fail- would you know that there was interference?  It could mistakenly lead you to think the original target was invalid.

[Mephansteras]

Say an AT-fielded (or dopp) guard protects a regular human.  The attempt would fail- would you know that there was interference?  It could mistakenly lead you to think the original target was invalid.

Yes, you would know that there was interference.

Then guards with an anti-tech field would need extra weight if there's a Hivemind in the game.

No, because the choice of whether to be Tech or Psychic is up to the Hivemind, and that happens after all the roles/abilities are assigned. They have to decide what route to take and which risks are worth it.