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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Diablous]

Sounds good to me.

[Mr.Person]

I don't think it's a good idea to have a tech be different sizes for different aliens. The whole point of the tech sizes system was to make it easy to tell which techs can be taken by which aliens. Personally, I'd just cut the entire medium tech category (and redistribute the medium techs, of course), make the Body Double a large, and give Survivors no tech at all. They don't need the help to win.

If not, then you need to consider that small techs are literally for the Survivor. Of all the aliens, he does not need a Body Double, so raise that thing up to Large. Large techs will be for the Exterminator. Medium techs are for the rest of the aliens and the Exterminator. Small techs should be situational and defensive. Medium techs should be informative and protective. Large techs should be deadly and far-reaching.

As sort of a buff to the Exterminator, the Operative should lose his 1-shot powers but gain a Medium tech slot.

Here's the current item list:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   Item list:

Personal Shield: Works once as though guarded by the Guardian. Will also protect against Morningkills. Small tech slot.
Mind Shield: The Mind Shield gives the user a Mind Shield. Should the user already possess a Natural Mind Shield, it will be upgraded to an Advanced Mind Shield. An advanced mind shield provides the same protection as a normal mind shield, but has the added benefit of always appearing to work to the one using psychic powers against the user. Telepaths will always receive a 'Survive' result, Psychic Wardens will not know their power is blocked, and so on. Small tech slot.
Holoform Modulator: Works once when investigated, allowing the alien to choose a role and race to show as. Once activated it lasts the entire night but is used up after that. Small tech slot.
Scanner: Works once as a combination of the Agent and Detective, showing both Race and Role as well as any gadgets or tech possessed by the player. The scanner bypasses all role effects on investigation (such as the Kook or Dopp Leader). The scanner does not use up the Alien's action, nor does it trigger any responses by the target (such as PWV or Reporter watching a location). Small tech slot, can be taken as a two-use item for a Medium tech slot.
Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.
Stun Orb: Allows the Alien to stun another player, preventing them from taking any actions that night or using any active abilities the following day (Role-block another player). 1 Use. Does not trigger War Vet/Turret response.  Small tech slot, can be taken as a two-use item for a Medium tech slot.
Advanced Holoform Modulator: Works as the Holoform Modulator, but also allows the Alien to project an active hologram. This hologram can be shown to go to any location (or stay at home). Anyone following the Alien will watch the Hologram instead of the Alien. Medium tech slot.
Assassin bot: Once per game the Alien can use the assassin bot to day-kill another player. This attack cannot be traced back to the Alien. In addition, it is triggered remotely and can be used even while abducted. Medium tech slot.
Mind Control Ray: Once per game the Alien can use the Mind Control Ray to choose another player's target for the night as well as their vote for the next day. If the player does not have a night action (and is not the dopp/cultist chosen for the night kill), or if the player has a limited-use night ability and chose not to use it, then no action occurs. The alien still controls the vote on the next day. Medium tech slot.
Stun Bomb: Allows the Alien to stun the entire town, preventing any player from using an Action for that night or using any active abilities the following day. The Alien who uses it is unaffected. Medium tech slot.
Combat Camouflage: A combination of weapons and accessories that allows the Exterminator to mask his kills as if they came from any source (Vig, Dopp, or Abduction). Medium tech slot.
Intel You begin the game with Intel on the survivors in the town. This gives you a list of all Roles in the game, but not who has them. Large tech slot.
Plasma Bomb: One use per game, can be chosen in lieu of a nightkill, which will kill the target, and anyone interacting with the target, and anyone interacting with them, and so on. Cannot be protected against. It is triggered remotely, so the Alien is smart enough to stay out of the Blast Radius, and is therefore unaffected (assuming he's not targeting himself for some reason). Can also be used while abducted. Only effects people physically at that location (so Psychics are fine). Large tech slot.

Here's what I think it should be.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Small

Mind Shield: The Mind Shield gives the user a Mind Shield. Should the user already possess a Natural Mind Shield, it will be upgraded to an Advanced Mind Shield.

Deadman Bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker that night.
Goal changes to Kill for the night when used

Mind Control Device: Same as Mad Scientist invention, except that the Alien who uses this will also read the controlled player's mind to find out their Goal.
Goal changes to Find for the night when used

Cloaking Device: The Alien may hide themselves during the night, stopping any player from physically interacting with them. Due to limited power supplies, the Alien may only hide for one night. Psychic actions will still affect the Alien, however.
Goal changes to Survive for the night when used

Medium

Scanner: Works as a combination of the Agent and Detective, showing both Race and Role as well as any gadgets or tech possessed by the player. The scanner bypasses all role effects on investigation (such as the Kook or Dopp Leader). The scanner does not trigger responses from the target. Can be used each night.
Goal changes to Find for the night when used

Stasis Field:  One time during the night you can dramatically slow time in a very localized area. The player you target will be unable to perform any actions, but any players who step near the affected area will also be unable to do anything before the effect wears off that morning. Because they get slowed before they get a chance to react, the stasis field does not trigger any responses by the target. You may choose to warn the target ahead of time, in which case the target will not be blocked.
Goal changes to Protect for the night when used

Holoform Modulator: When activated, a hologram of the Alien's choice of race and role will be projected going to another person's house. Anybody who targets the Alien will instead target the hologram. By the time any would-be killers can tell that they've been duped, the night will be over, effectively protecting the Alien that one night. Note that psychic actions will obviously not be fooled.
Goal changes to Survive for the night when used

Personality Enhancer: This tech makes the Alien a far better speaker, granting him an extra vote.

Sonic Toolkit: The Alien gains a whole host of abilities using this array of tools. The Alien may use each of these abilities once

• Inspect a player's Race and Role. Goal changes to Find for the night
• Protect a player like the Guardian. Goal changes to Protect for the night
• Nightkill a player. Goal changes to Kill for the night
• Roleblock a player. Goal changes to Survive for the night

(More "always-on" techs would be good)

Large

Plasma Bomb: One use per game, this bomb will kill the target, and anyone interacting with the target, and anyone interacting with them, and so on. Cannot be protected against. It is triggered remotely. The Alien himself is immune to plasma, so he is unaffected, even if exploded on himself. Only affects people physically at that location, so Psychics are fine.
Goal changes to Kill for the night when used

Ion Cannon: Transforms the night kill into an extermination. Not only can the target not be protected, but the target's house and belongings will be eradicated as well. Nobody will be able to figure out the target's race or role. The Alien may use his standard night kill, if he wants.

Soul Trapper: When the Alien kills, the dead player's soul will be trapped aboard the Alien's ship. As long as the Alien is alive, trapped souls do not gain access to the Dead Chat and may not speak with any Mediums.

Combat Camouflage: The Alien may, each night, choose a Race, Role, and Tech and have his kill appear to come from that Race, Role, and Tech combination (The combination must have a valid killing method). In addition, the Alien will be completely invisible while performing the kill, preventing any reaction to his kills. May choose to be visible for a night.

Intel: You begin the game with Intel on the survivors in the town. This gives you a list of all Roles in the game, but not who has them.

Psychic Energy Wave - Base Amplitude Multiplier (PEW-BAM): This exotic piece of technology will multiply the power of any psychic activity. Normal humans, dopps, and even aliens cannot whistand this kind of energy. Psychic players will be so overwhelmed that not only will they accidentlly kill their target, they'll kill themself in the process, too. Players with Mind Shields are immune to having their psychic energy multiplied, but only an Advanced Mind Shield can withstand the actual attack of such a powerful mind blast. These psychic kills can be protected against from mundane sources such as a Bodyguard.
Goal changes to Kill for the night when used

Thoughts? I'm not sure if the Stun Bomb should be Large or Medium. I'm thinking Large, but then also give the Alien the power to make other players immune to the effect, if they want. Useful if you have an Operative or if the Controlled Dopp makes a comeback.

[Leafsnail]

Considering the amount of tech we now have, it'd be easy to have a game made up exclusively of those with tech slots .

See Stars Aligned Mafia for something similar...

[Mephansteras]

I don't know, the tech system was really designed with more Aliens in mind. We don't have many at this point since the Dopp and Agent hunters are gone. Doesn't seem to be broken, though.

I might decide to just start Round 16 and figure this out for next game, though.

[Jim Groovester]

Those alien tech choices seriously buff up all the aliens to ridiculous levels.

Especially that Psychic Wave Modulator thingamajig. Killing all psychic players and their targets? Huge no-no. If the Exterminator wants to kill a lot of people in one night, he should have to work for it, like the way the plasma bomb is now.

I don't think the alien tech choices are broken, so let's not drastically fix them.

[Mr.Person]

My assumption is that a 16 player game will have ~3 psychic targetted players, so 6 player deaths on average. If you go and use it on the first night, remember that you're vulnerable if you don't have an advanced mind shield. Even if you do, you're not actually killing anyone that night. If there are no psychic players, nobody dies. And if you wait, more of the psychic players will die each night, decreasing the power of it.

If you take the Plasma Bomb to an extreme, you could kill every single other player in a single night. That never happen. The only reason I feel comfortable with it is pretty much because I'd never take it. I don't feel like risking dying on the first night just to get some more kills off. But maybe I'm weird, would you guys take it?

[Mephansteras]

The problem with that one is that a bunch of what you said doesn't really make sense.

1) Exterminators always have a mind shield, and they can choose to take an Advanced Mind Shield as another tech so they can *always* be safe from this if they want.
2) Mind shields only exist on non-psychic characters, so there is no way to have a psychic character not turned hyper by the power
3) Enchanters are a psychic character...what happens to them? They don't have a night action.
4) Psychics by definition don't go anywhere to use their power, how would a bodyguard be able to save someone?

I also don't like the fact that you could have up to 8 psychic targeting characters in a 16 player game (4 Telepaths 4 Psychic Wardens). One dopp would kill someone in that scenario, but you'd still have 7 people target someone else and die. You could conceivably have EVERYONE but the Exterminator die that night. Not too likely, but still possible. Having even 8 players die on the first day would be a bit much. Especially since it simply requires that the players exist and use their power (they all do), rather then having a bunch of people all go to the same place.

So, it's way more powerful than the Plasma Bomb.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah... it's sortof getting up to "Bastard Mod" type levels of power (Think: Webadict, Endless Witch).

[Jim Groovester]

But maybe I'm weird, would you guys take it?

Absolutely.

The chance to kill potentially half the players in a single night is well worth the risk of potentially being targeted. It's even better because the kill can be averted by protection, and if the Exterminator has an Operative, there's no risk to the Exterminator as the Operative can act as a Vengeful Guard.

It's worse than the Plasma Bomb because the Exterminator doesn't have to guess who's going to get targetted most during the night, he gets several automatic kills with no effort. And it's no fun to the people who suddenly just died because they were just using their power.

That was only the most egregious example of the tech choices you proposed, however. Combinations of the other tech turn the Exterminator (and other aliens) from a potent third party to near godlike levels.

Like the Combat Camouflage. Immunity to War Vet/Vengeful Guard retaliation? I'd take that too.

Others are of mixed use. Preventing people from using dead chat is an interesting idea but not really worth much compared to sending more people there, and the Ion Cannon prevents Exterminators from knowing what they just killed, and apparently doesn't use up the Exterminator's nightkill for that night.

The Alien's current tech choices aren't broken, so let's not fix them.

[Mr.Person]

I actually do consider them broken. Not overpowered broken, they're just wrong. Many of the Aliens have obvious choices that make no sense to take anything else. Why would a Survivor NOT take a Body Double? Or an Exterminator? Why would he not take a Body Double?

Obvious choices are just as bad as ridiculously weak choices. Either make the roles fixed with no choices at all or make all of the choices viable and sensible.

Yeah, I went too far with the Exterminator's stuff. I admit that, but you guys gotta admit he needs a bit of a buff. An Exterminator has never won a game. Ever.

[Leafsnail]

I actually do consider them broken. Not overpowered broken, they're just wrong. Many of the Aliens have obvious choices that make no sense to take anything else. Why would a Survivor NOT take a Body Double? Or an Exterminator? Why would he not take a Body Double?

It's not an option to either role.  Personal Shield is... but I think that assassin bots/ DMBs can have interesting tactical effects (consider how ToonyMan might've done if he hadn't died to me in Para 15, for instance).

[Mephansteras]

ToonyMan almost won last game, and if it hadn't been for some really bad luck on his part he very well could have. He was also going offensive tech-wise instead of defensive, and wouldn't have taken the Body Double anyway. As far as lack of variety goes...I've seen Exterminators take pretty much everything on that list except the Stun weapons (which tend to be taken by Scientists). All of it is useful in different situations.

The real problem with buffing the Exterminator is that I don't want to make the game unfun for everyone else. Make the Exterminator too powerful and the dopps have pretty much no chance to win. It's a balancing act.

Maybe the Body Double will improve things a bit. Maybe it won't get used much, since Plasma Bombs are fun. Hard to say.

As for the Survivor, he only gets small tech for a reason. He gets to pick something small to boost himself with, nothing more. A Body Double isn't an option.

[Org]

I won as an alien once.

[Mephansteras]

Aliens win all the time, Exterminators just can't seem to win.

[Solifuge]

I think it's a product of the whole "having to go out and shoot people to win" thing... they fall victim to Dopplegangers, War Veterans, Vengeful Bodyguards, etc., and they don't have the backup that the Dopples do to still pull a victory out of a bad kill. They've got the worst of both worlds, in that the town will see them as killers, the dopples see them as threats, and they have no real team to help them out.