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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Mephansteras]

Honestly, I think if he took a Mind Control Ray and a Stun Orb and was quiet about everything he'd have a decent chance. Leafsnail's biggest problem this time was making it obvious that he existed to everyone (plus the Scientist having Intel, which won't happen in the future).

[Leafsnail]

MCR and Stun Orb would stop a couple of kills, I suppose, although the CT could've rumbled such a claim fairly easily.  I suppose the upgraded MCR will be better, since it could also create a NL the day after.  Although, if you pick SB, you know you're going to do something to extend the game.

And MCR/ Stun Orb combo would make me little more than a 2 shot RB...

[dakarian]

A few things to help though:

1. There probably won't be another CT due to the new changes. 

2. No Intel for the scientist.


However, note that the Exterminator has an ally (operative/controlled dopp), 2 slots, and nightly killings and his role is STILL harder than most others.  Watcher is even worse.  Even without being spotted immediately how exactly is he going to slow anyone down?  If he votes too awkwardly, he'll be spotted and probably NKed or ignored.  if the game drags on, it'll probably be due to natural events: not so much anything the watcher does.  That makes the role rather random and dull.

I still vote for at least a one shot JOAT + 2 slot.  Stun bomb is a no brainer, but being able to trip up various key events could be what he needs to get through.  A protect on a NK here, a Redirect of an intel there.  A kill on a scientist or exterminator over that way, then a nice stun bomb right at the critical moment.

Just give him a one shot on every move you can think of and let the watcher try to sort of how to works for them.

[Mephansteras]

How broken would it be to give him 4 tech slots instead?

[Eduren]

What is the final verdict on the Witch idea?

[dakarian]

I'm not sure you COULD overpower the Watcher beyond making him unkillable and giving him endless amounts of stun bombs.  Everything we give him can backfire on him, ruining his win.

Hmm, 4 slots

That's one instant end to a night, then 2 roleblocks. 

Still voting for OS JOAT + 2 slot.  I'd be happy to play watcher just for the sheer crazy you could pull with that and I still don't think it'll make it that easy to play.  You're going against every single other player in the game who's mentality is a fast win without being able to just wipe out the annoying ones like the Exterminator.

[Mephansteras]

Or, he could take Intel, scanner, and Mind Control. Basically fake himself as a detective and form a 'town base' while directing things so that the game moves as slowly as possible. He could use his Watching ability + Intel to know what roles to be on the look out for and who to try to direct/kill using the scanner.

4 Tech slots gives him a lot of interesting options, although 2 + a bunch of One-shot abilities does as well.

@Eduren: I might use the basic idea for a Cult Puppetmaster. 'Witch' itself won't be used simply because the whole reason that the Warlock is the Warlock is that guys didn't like being called a Witch for some reason.

[webadict]

He'd need a Holoform to even come close to a town base.

4 slots on a Watcher... Not all that overpowered. It's just that he still won't get anything helpful for himself. Sure, MCR, Holoform, Assasin Bot, and... Oh I dunno... Shield?

He still got so little of a chance.

[RedWarrior0]

Seriously, just give him everything: OS JOAT + all alien tech. Then see if he's still underpowered. If he is, less power roles.

[dakarian]

One shot:
Kill
Protect
Redirect
Roleblock
Inspect
Role inspect
Enchant

2 slots (which will probably mean the Stun Bomb)

Give him that, he won't be overpowered: It'll only LOOK like it till you start playing in your head HOW he's going to use that to extend the day by 3-4 days.  Bomb gives you one day but it's a dead giveaway to everyone.  Everything else requires a good read on the players-not just what they are but what they mean to do-in order to do more than just annoy or, worse, help one side win faster (i.e. ending up killing a Dopp, or Protecting the medium or an enchant that turns a tie into a win).

[Mephansteras]

Well, it helps that he really only has to extend the game by 2-3 days in most cases.

Even in Round 10, which had the stun bomb but also had a Cult Hunter and Scientist (combined they removed 6 players from the game) is still at day 5. It's 3-2 town/cult, so the game could end today on a mislynch. But if the town is successful they still won't win until day 6 through lynching.

Given a game with, say, just a Watcher as alien, I could easily see a few minor effects pushing the game out to the deadline.

[Eduren]

So, he'd be the ultimate manipulator, but without the power to actually change anything? Sounds kinda poetic.

I don't think it should be a role that is easily winnable. That said, give him JOAT, because from the sound of things, it wouldn't make much difference anyway.

Also, I really think it should be a rare role, just because of the effect he has in winning.

[RedWarrior0]

Idea: make the number of required days go down.

[JanusTwoface]

Also: Vampires!

[dakarian]

I stand by One shot JOAT and two slot.  If he wins with that, he's purely epic in people manipulation.  No need to lower the days though.  The wins should be based on his manipulations, not just because one side didn't fully sweep over the other side.

Vamps... how are they going to go again?