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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Leafsnail]

Sometimes the mafia all automatically get a "Falseclaim" ability, where they can ask the mod to send them another role pm for any role/ alignment.  It would stop role pm quoting, at least.

'Nother idea - give the Alien Exterminator a Safeclaim ability too.  That is, he'll be told the name of a neutral/ pro-town alien that isn't in the game, which he'll be able to claim without fear of a counter claim.  Aliens that could be safeclaimed - Survivor, Seeker, Hunter, Watcher.

[webadict]

Sometimes the mafia all automatically get a "Falseclaim" ability, where they can ask the mod to send them another role pm for any role/ alignment.  It would stop role pm quoting, at least.

'Nother idea - give the Alien Exterminator a Safeclaim ability too.  That is, he'll be told the name of a neutral/ pro-town alien that isn't in the game, which he'll be able to claim without fear of a counter claim.  Aliens that could be safeclaimed - Survivor, Seeker, Hunter, Watcher.

Intel ruins this.

[Mr.Person]

Sometimes the mafia all automatically get a "Falseclaim" ability, where they can ask the mod to send them another role pm for any role/ alignment.  It would stop role pm quoting, at least.

'Nother idea - give the Alien Exterminator a Safeclaim ability too.  That is, he'll be told the name of a neutral/ pro-town alien that isn't in the game, which he'll be able to claim without fear of a counter claim.  Aliens that could be safeclaimed - Survivor, Seeker, Hunter, Watcher.

Think of it this way: Why would any of those counterclaim? It just draws unwanted attention to themselves. Well, a Watcher might, but claiming Watcher is just kind of a dumb idea, really.

[Leafsnail]

Survivor could counter-claim to bugger up the Exterminator's plans and speed up the end of the game.  And yeah, claiming Watcher might not be a good idea for the Exterminator when compared to other, more attractive options, but it could be used as a blackmail tool.

Intel ruins this.

Only the Alien Scientist and the Watcher Alien could also have intel, and they possibly aren't too likely to say it.

[webadict]

Watcher has no point to take Intel, just as the Exterminator doesn't either. The Scientist is the one that really makes a mess of this, as he can help the town with his knowledge and then leave. It's actually very annoying, especially with a confirmed townie...

Sooo... yeah. I really doubt the Scientist needs 2 Tech Points. He tends to win within 4 Days.

I still think there needs to be less roles...

[ToonyMan]

I kinda agree with Webadict.  Winning as scum is about 0% right now.

[dakarian]

I do like the 10 pages of roles here.  I don't think we need to reduce the roles so much as we need games that host less roles.  I love how NSBM is running along.  Para (for those who love my 'Meth' messes, I have to keep editing 'Para'.  I keep typing 'Pandar') is role crazy, simply put. 

To get to the aliens, though, I notice the Scientist and Dopp Seeker have a boatload of power here and tend to grab up dopps easily.  Perhaps they need a lot more weight for the town so that they show up less (or else the dopps get a batch more power). 

sidenote: has the scientist and dopp seeker ever lost?

[Mr.Person]

I do like the 10 pages of roles here.  I don't think we need to reduce the roles so much as we need games that host less roles.  I love how NSBM is running along.  Para (for those who love my 'Meth' messes, I have to keep editing 'Para'.  I keep typing 'Pandar') is role crazy, simply put. 

To get to the aliens, though, I notice the Scientist and Dopp Seeker have a boatload of power here and tend to grab up dopps easily.  Perhaps they need a lot more weight for the town so that they show up less (or else the dopps get a batch more power). 

sidenote: has the scientist and dopp seeker ever lost?

Scientist is fairly new (And my idea!), but no, I don't think either of the 2 have ever lost. I think there power is fine, but they might need their weight adjusted.

[Mephansteras]

I'm fine with increasing the weight on those two. They do win a lot. I'm also ok with reducing the Scientist down to 1 tech point. We'll see how those effect things.

Overall, though, I'm ok with having lots of roles for Paranormal. It's pretty much what it is, and most people seem to have a lot of fun with it.

[ToonyMan]

Yeah, I so know that feeling Meph.  Having a role in Paranormal is just awesome!

:[

[webadict]

I kinda agree with Webadict.  Winning as scum is about 0% right now.

It's actually about 1.3%

Technically, scum MIGHT be able to win if the Town mislynches the worst case scenarios, and only have some of the scum are taken out be whatever roles remain (Which is usually a lot [Vig, War Vet, Scientist, Hunter, Telepath, Agent, Exterminator, Operative, Mad Scientist, Warden, Guardian, Protector, Warlock, Reporter... What CAN'T impede the scum? A Kook? ... That's it.])

And that's just an average game.

Here's a rundown on all the roles and their effectiveness against scum:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Doppelganger/Cultist: Uncommon scum role. Almost no threat to town (Can be investigated, scanned, blocked, killed... Whatever!
  
• Doppelganger/Cult Leader: Uncommon scum role. Some threat (Only protected against investigations, but Telepath bypasses.)
  
• Advanced Doppelganger: Rare scum role. Lots of threat (If it works. And it's rare, so I doubt it.)
  
• Townie: Rare town role. No threat to scum, except by being confirmed.
  
• Kook/Goth: Uncommon town role. Little threat to scum. Can be confirmed with Telepath.
  
• Agent: Common town role. Lots of threat to scum. Basically works on all but Aliens and Leaders. As scum: Negative threat. Has to use ability to counter Telepath.
  
• Detective: Common town role. Little threat to scum. Throws out fakeclaims sometimes. Not much use from this guy. As scum: Some threat. Can find a few good roles.
  
• Telepath: Very Common town role. EXTREME threat to scum. Basically confirms town with Survive results (Or survivor... Which is no threat), and throws most claims out the window (Duh... Mad Scientist/Townie with Kill results? SCUM!!!). This guy destroys games. As scum: A little threat. Can find some roles...
  
• Medium: Common town role. EXTREME threat to scum. Basically takes confirmed townies and gives away all the information they learned from last Night. Oh, got killed after you found out he was a Dopp? No problem! And then the Guardian will save me! As scum: Zero threat. Telepath destroys it.
  
• Reporter: Uncommon town role. Some threat to scum. Basically confirms what a person has said happened. Unless you're watching what happens. Then you can make sure of anyone that kills that person. As scum: Zero threat. Uses role to counter Telepath. Learns almost nothing from it.
  
• War Vet: Rare town role. Lots of threat to scum. He just says he's a War Vet and then boom. What's next? Scum won't attack him. They know he's telling the truth. As scum: FINALLY! Lots of threat to town... until the Medium destroys that. And, of course, he is extremely rare as scum.
  
• Vigilante: Uncommon town role. Some threat to scum. If he kills whoever. He usually doesn't though. As scum: EXTREME threat to town! But, it's so rare that this is pointless.
  
• Guardian: Uncommon town role. Some threat to scum. Usually more with a confirmed townie and makes people with known roles protected. As scum: Some threat. Occasionally helps take out... War Vets. And stops Vigs. Not really.
  
• Bodyguard: Common town role. Major threat to scum. As scum: BWAHAHAHAHA! Basically sacrifice yourself for another scum who is probably just as terrible.
         
  • Heroic Guard: Doesn't help either side.
    
  • Observent Guard: Helps town with a Medium. Ridiculously over-powered. As scum: ...Don't make me laugh.
    
  • Vengeful Guard: Helps town by KILLING THE ATTACKER!!! Helps scum by DYING! Maybe it takes out the Vig...
    
• Psychic Warden : Common town role. Lots of threat to scum. Makes it so Telepath can get Kill result on people. As scum: Some threat to town. There's so many town PRs that it can't be bothered to stop them all.
  
• Mad Scientist: Rare town role. Some threat to scum. As scum: Lots of threat to town.
         
  • Body Double: As town, not much of a point. As scum, usually ends in being killed twice.
    
  • Security System: As town, ridiculous confirmer. As scum, can find lots of roles at his expense.
    
  • Sentry Guns: As town, some threat. Basically a War Vet. As scum, lots of threat, but usually the Medium destroys it.
    
  • Snooper bot: As town, some threat. As scum, no threat.
    
  • Assassin bot: As town, little threat. Usually used in coordination with scan results. As scum, some threat, but then gives away the MS.
    
  • Mind Control Ray: This... is the WORST invention possible. This helps no one. Scum can't use it because it's so obvious it gives them away. Town won't use it because you can't redirect back to the origin. Take it out.
    
• Witch/Warlock: Uncommon town role. Basically kills a scum with no block possible. Well, a mind shield, but that's not very common anymore. As scum: Pointless except when being lynched. Telepath destroys it.
  
• Enchanter: Rare town role. Little threat to scum. As scum: Only helps at lylo. Telepath destroys it.
  
• Agent Seeker: Uncommon alien role. Little threat to scum. Little threat to town. Usually talks to confirmed townie.
  
• Doppelganger/Cult Hunter: Common alien role. Lots of threat to scum. No threat to town. Typically wins.
  
• Alien Scientist: Common(?) alien role. Major threat to scum. Typicaly takes Intel, gives it to town, then wins, after confirming everyone.
  
• Survivor: Uncommon alien role. Doesn't really hurt town or scum.
  
• Exterminator/Operative: Uncommon alien role. Some threat to town. Some threat to scum. Never wins anyway, because of so many PRs.
  
• Watcher: Alien role. Lots of threat to both. Very annoying. Oh wait, Alien roles can win? (Excludes Survivor, Exterminator, and Operative.)
  

   

• Personal Shield: Most aliens take this.
  
• Holoform Modulator: Some Exterminators take this.
  
• Scanner: Not really useful anymore, what with all the Agents and Telepaths and confirming and what-not.
  
• Deadman bomb: Some Exterminators take this and then threaten the town. Which is a good idea.
  
• Mind Control Ray: Pointless.
  
• Intel: Scientist takes and gives to town. EXTREME threat to scum.
  
• Plasma Bomb: No one will ever use this, because there are better combinations. Because the game where you DO take this will have 3 PRs and kill no one.
  
• Stun Orb: No one will take this.
  
• Stun Bomb: Watchers take this for a -1 on their Days. They kinda have to. Watchers a ridiculously annoying.
  
• Human Tech: Maybe someone would take this, except that an Agent can disprove this. It's kinda a gamble.
  
• Combat Camouflage: Pointless. Medium can confirm it's not a Scientist, another kill can confirm it's not scum, and Human Tech already exists. Unless you WANT to look like an Exterminator.
  

• Mind Shield: Almost no threat to town. As scum: Major threat to town. Telepaths fail and Warlocks fail. Awesome.
  
• Controlled Doppelganger: It's not like the scum need anymore hurt.
  

If you are going to change the weights on something, make Telepaths ridiculously more. They are town confirmers. Just like DoTs, and there's nothing to stop them.

[Leafsnail]

Seems pretty fair, although I can't see the logic of some of the "Medium usually destroys it", to be honest.  And yes, the Watcher's win condition is incompatible with everyone EXCEPT the Agent Seeker, Alien Scientist and Dopp/ Cult Hunter.  I know having a global roleblock N1 is annoying, but other than that, the Watcher can't really do too much (and most other techs are unhelpful - Personal Shield might prevent one NK, HM might protect from an Agent, Scanner is pointless, Deadman Bomb is horrificly bad, MCR is pointless, Intel... well, there's not much you can do with it, Plasma Bomb would speed up the game, Stun Orb is a weaker version of MCR and the other 2 have no use for a Watcher.  So yeah, a Watcher will probably end up as a global roleblocker.

I agree with giving Telepaths more weight, as well as some kind of false negative result other than the extremely unlikely HM.  I'm tempted to say that Cult/ Dopp leaders should also return a Survive result.

[webadict]

Seems pretty fair, although I can't see the logic of some of the "Medium usually destroys it", to be honest.  And yes, the Watcher's win condition is incompatible with everyone EXCEPT the Agent Seeker, Alien Scientist and Dopp/ Cult Hunter.  I know having a global roleblock N1 is annoying, but other than that, the Watcher can't really do too much (and most other techs are unhelpful - Personal Shield might prevent one NK, HM might protect from an Agent, Scanner is pointless, Deadman Bomb is horrificly bad, MCR is pointless, Intel... well, there's not much you can do with it, Plasma Bomb would speed up the game, Stun Orb is a weaker version of MCR and the other 2 have no use for a Watcher.  So yeah, a Watcher will probably end up as a global roleblocker.

I agree with giving Telepaths more weight, as well as some kind of false negative result other than the extremely unlikely HM.  I'm tempted to say that Cult/ Dopp leaders should also return a Survive result.

Yes, the Watcher isn't going to win either, unless you NL like 3 Days in a row and stun everyone. And maybe a few kill blocks. It's those other aliens that tend to ruin it.

[Leafsnail]

Cult Hunter = 2 less players to start off with.  Alien Scientist = Watcher is fucked, basically .

[webadict]

Cult Hunter = 2 less players to start off with.  Alien Scientist = Watcher is fucked, basically .

lol, gg kthxbai.

Yeah, pretty much. It's like a big GL to you and leaving you with no abilities at all. You have to convince town to get to lylo, block scum every once in a while, and then stop Aliens from moving always and forever.