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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Pandarsenic]

I vote to scrap it completely. We need less roles, not more!

My response to the Watcher stands.

[JanusTwoface]

Now that I've revealed myself in the main thread, I can go ahead and jump in here without being too obvious.

Comments on previous stuff:
- I think that the Watcher ability (or some equivalent listening type thing) would be a useful 2-slot tech item rather than as a completely separate role.  Still powerful if the Scientist takes it, but being obvious about it will get them hunted down rather quickly.  (Which tends to make it hard for a scientist to win).
- I'm not opposed to the Abductions being moved up (everyone likes the team they're on).  For the record, I'm pretty sure that this doesn't change the Scientist's power, but makes others slightly weaker if they target the Scientist's target or are going to be targeted.

Comments on other Scientist stuff (I talked with Meph some about this):
- The Scientist should be able to let go of people if they want to (for example, if they get another of the same type; or if they're just feeling generous).
- The Scientist should be able to (officially) talk with the people they've kidnapped. I have been a little, but it would nice being official.

My 2 cents worth.  Thoughts?

[Kashyyk]

Scientist with Intel is too powerful IMO.

Anywho, I agree with your PM, but I've managed to reach the limit (20 PM's in an hour) So I can't PM anymore.   

[JanusTwoface]

Huh, there's a limit on PMs?  Wow.  I would have thought that I'd hit that with how many message I'd been sending trying to find the Exterminator, but I haven't.

And yes.  A Scientist with Intel is powerful, but it really does help to find the Alien that he needs to kidnap.  And I guess the dopps to.  From what I've heard from Meph though, no one has ever chosen it before.  Kind of fun in a logic game kind of way. 

I'm curious what Intel would do in the hands of someone less sharing than I am?  I don't mind sharing information which probably made it more powerful.

[Mr.Person]

I know I would take intel as a scientist and as an exterminator in a dopp+cult game. You know what to fakeclaim, which is really useful, but you also know how many dangers there are in the game, for instance, and who must be lying with their claim.

[JanusTwoface]

Yeah.  That's exactly what I've been doing.

It's kind of funny, because I was originally going to grab Holo + Shield to keep me alive longer.  And then I though, 'Let's have fun, I'll take the Intel'  Turns out that was a good idea...

[Mephansteras]

I have a couple of thoughts to make things a bit more fair, Scientist-Intel wise.

1) Remove Abilities and Tech/Gadgets from the Intel list.
2) Only show what a Detective would see on the Intel list (so Townsfolk, Dopps, Dopp Leader, etc only show up as No Role).

Also, there needs to be something the other aliens can do to avoid being Abducted. I have a few thoughts here.
1) Make a new Tech that acts as a one-time shield against a role-block (much like the current shield prevents a single night-kill)
2) Make the Assassin Bot remote-activated so it can be used even while captured
3) Make the Plasma Bomb remote-activated so it can be used even while captured (only helps the Exterminator, though).

I'm up for other ideas, of course.

[webadict]

Oh, so NOW the Plasma Bomb can be used by the Exterminator while abducted... I wanted it to be usable in the first place, since it's like the best "Oh, so you think you won?"

Also, if the Alien abducts someone that is trying to kill them, the abducter should be killed.

[Mr.Person]

I'm not so sure nerfing intel is a good idea. It's powerful, yes, but is it better than a shield+assassin bot/shield+scanner? Hard to say. I would drop the scientist to 1 tech slot, though. Also, you may want to try and usurp the shield as the most-taken tech. It works for everybody and is just generally powerful. I'd probably split it into 2 items, one that takes the place of a night kill and one that takes the place of a lynching. Probably a hologram projector for the NK stopper and the current shield for the lynching stopper. The clone's gotta sleep too, and holograms wouldn't fool the town but would confound any attackers, you see.

An alien with a holoform projector gets told if they're getting inspected and then gets a chance to use it, right? I've never seen anybody take it, so changing up the alien tech and mad scientist inventions might not be a bad idea, to try and balance things out and cut the chaff nobody uses anyways.

[JanusTwoface]

Would an Exterminator take the Intel?   Because if the Scientist only had 1 slot, then only Exterminators could get it.

I guess it would still be somewhat useful to an Exterminator, but I think I would have chosen something else had I been one.

[Pandarsenic]

My favorite exterminator loadout will probably always be Shield/Deathbomb

[Mephansteras]

@Mr.Person, the Shield does NOT prevent lynches, it just prevents Night-kills (same as the Guardian ability). It is a very popular choice, but it isn't the only one.

I see Scanner, Shield, and Holoform taken pretty often. Deadman bomb is popular for the Exterminators. Scanner is usually taken by the Dopp Hunter or Agent Seeker, while shield is used by Survivors and Exterminators. Holoform...just Exterminators so far, I think, but I could see a Survivor taking it.

Assassin bot, Mind Control Ray, and Plasma bomb have not been taken yet.

Hmmm...question on the Plasma Bomb. Should it kill all of the Scientist's captives, or just him and whoever he's interacting with that night? If we make it remote-detonated, I'd have to go with just the Scientist and whomever he's interacting with so the Exterminator can actually use it to get away.

[Kashyyk]

If we make it remote-detonated, I'd have to go with just the Scientist and whomever he's interacting with so the Exterminator can actually use it to get away.

THis, allthough I wouldn't mind having captives die aswell. I like being a pain-in-the-ass.

Also, do you guys think the shield ought to block the scientist freeze ray?

[Mephansteras]

If we make it remote-detonated, I'd have to go with just the Scientist and whomever he's interacting with so the Exterminator can actually use it to get away.

THis, allthough I wouldn't mind having captives die aswell. I like being a pain-in-the-ass.

Also, do you guys think the shield ought to block the scientist freeze ray?

The only problem with making the shield prevent the abduction is that it's already the most commonly taken Tech item. I'd like to see the others get more use, not less.

[Mephansteras]

how about as a variant of watching one person a day, the watcher can select as many people as they want to and find out if any of them have sent PMs? It could go on a similar schedule to what it does now (two requests a day, I think), with the watcher player needing to choose between specificity and number of people to check. So, a check might look like:

Watcher: I watch chaoticjosh, Pandarsenic, Webadict, and Alexhans.
Meph: At least one of those players has sent a PM.

or

Watcher: I watch archangel
Meph: Archangel has not sent any PMs

They might also be able to give up a selection to also receive the next PM that someone sent, or something of that nature, if that doesn't seem useful enough.

On the subject of the Watcher, I'm thinking of trying the following modifications:

Watcher: Each Day the watcher chooses one or more players to watch. If any of the players chosen communicate with another player via PM or Quicktopic, the watcher is notified at the end of the day that at least one of the watched players communicated. The Watcher will not know which player(s) communicated or how many.

Telepath: Gains the ability to send one message a day telepathically. This message is invisible to the watcher. May be by PM or Quicktopic and may go to any number of players.

Cult Leader: Due to his years of experience hiding his identity, he has the ability to send messages to the other cultists without attracting the notice of the watcher.

Thoughts on these changes?