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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Servant Corps]

In 3 Town/2 Cult/3 Dopp, the Town should always vote for NO LYNCH. The Cult has no choice but the target the Dopp if they want to have a chance at winning, while the Dopp has to target the Cult if they also want a chance at winning.

The Town doesn't have to be the kingmaker, it should play to win. And letting the Cultists and the Doppelgangers tear each other apart is how that would work.

Oh, and Meph prohibited Everyone Lives Happily Ever After. The Dopps must eat at least once every 3 nights and the Cultists must sacrifice at least once every three nights.

[JoshuaFH]

I can agree that we should put cult on the bench for now. If there comes a time where paranormal gets big enough, a second mafia might be appropriate, but I think it would be in our best interest to just put the idea to the side for now.

[dakarian]

Hmm.   Town would either do no lynch or kill a dopp, then it goes to night.  If everyone knows each other's role by then the cult would kill the dopps and the dopps cults.  If it's no lynch, dopps lynch the cult, then nightkill, leaving 0 cult, 3 town,  2 dops.  Unless people STILL don't know who's who, town wins by attrition (if they don't know, it's LoL). 

Two groups seem VERY pro town, especially if both groups remain alive in the end game.  My suggestion of not letting the sides nightkill each other was to help even things out without overpowering things: if the cult and dopps target each other, no one dies and now both sides know who each other are.  They'll then try to rig the vote in the day time. 

It makes a nice scene for the bad guys.  I used it when I was a mafia hunting a cult.  I even got the town to believe that the game ONLY had a cult and no mafia.  Both cultists were killed by the town (one via lynch, other by vig) and it kept suspicion off me in time to take down the rest.

So I can fully understand removing two-group games, but if you do put them in, I believe not letting them kill each other at night would work well for them.

[Mephansteras]

I think if we have another game with 2 mafias I'll first go with beefing up their number of power roles a good bit. Not letting them kill each other seems a bit odd, and maybe too unbalanced against the town.

For those that don't like having two mafias, what's your opinion on the cult as an alternate mafia group? Should we keep them in as variety or would you prefer we stick with just dopps?

[Mr.Person]

I think if we have another game with 2 mafias I'll first go with beefing up their number of power roles a good bit. Not letting them kill each other seems a bit odd, and maybe too unbalanced against the town.

For those that don't like having two mafias, what's your opinion on the cult as an alternate mafia group? Should we keep them in as variety or would you prefer we stick with just dopps?

It's not lack of PR, it's simply lack of numbers.

I think if there's one scum group, it should be dopps. The cult isn't much different, but is different enough to confuse things up.

[Alexhans]

^^AND it makes the survivor alien Town alligned.

[Leafsnail]

Oh yeah, that's true.  I kinda like the idea of having it as one of the two for variety though.

I think the current game is an extreme case (it would've probably been better for there to be 1 scum group of 3, considering how it turned out) but it is true that having 2 scum groups is very pro-town.  More numbers might help, but when the number of people who are potential scum starts to push 50%...

[Mephansteras]

^^AND it makes the survivor alien Town alligned.

True. Although I could always take out the Survivor alien for cult only games.


On the subject of two-mafia games:

What about this?

Two-mafia games require at least 20 players. If there are two mafias, several things happen.
  1) The % of mafia players goes up to 35% instead of 25%.
  2) The Ratio of Alien players goes down to 0-10% instead of 0-20%.
  3) The town is given a power boost in the balancer to account for the fact that the scum will be hunting each other.

Sound workable? I don't want to have scum get too high of a % of the town, and I think this set of numbers should work pretty well.

[Leafsnail]

Sounds ok, but this bit:

  3) The town is given a power boost in the balancer to account for the fact that the scum will be hunting each other.

Was that a mistake?

[Mephansteras]

Sounds ok, but this bit:

  3) The town is given a power boost in the balancer to account for the fact that the scum will be hunting each other.

Was that a mistake?

No, but it may not make sense to you. My program balances out each side, trying to get the overall balance of the game to 0. So, say the town gets an Agent (power 4), the Overall balance is now 4, in favor of the town. Then the Dopps get a Guardian (power -6), balance is now -2 in favor of the scum. By giving the town a power boost in the balance at the beginning, I'm effectively giving the scum a boost in power roles (or more powerful power roles).

Does that make sense now?

[webadict]

Sounds ok, but this bit:

  3) The town is given a power boost in the balancer to account for the fact that the scum will be hunting each other.

Was that a mistake?

No, but it may not make sense to you. My program balances out each side, trying to get the overall balance of the game to 0. So, say the town gets an Agent (power 4), the Overall balance is now 4, in favor of the town. Then the Dopps get a Guardian (power -6), balance is now -2 in favor of the scum. By giving the town a power boost in the balance at the beginning, I'm effectively giving the scum a boost in power roles (or more powerful power roles).

Does that make sense now?

Okay, but are you making each scum team balance out, rolewise, or do they each count against the town, and not each other?

[Mephansteras]

The program will try to balance them out against each other as well by splitting the power between the two, but it will accept an inbalance between the scum factions in favor of a balance between town and scum overall.

[Leafsnail]

Ah, that makes sense then.

[webadict]

The program will try to balance them out against each other as well by splitting the power between the two, but it will accept an inbalance between the scum factions in favor of a balance between town and scum overall.

How much of an imbalance? Significantly imbalanced, or only slightly?

[Mephansteras]

Only slightly. Usually just a point or two. And I can always rebalance things by hand if need be.