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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Hapah]

PFP

I like the DMB change; it did need to be toned down.

I don't like that SS ends the game upon being lynched. Frowns all around no matter when he gets lynched, and feels like it would be a very unsatisfying ending. Just my first impression though.

[zombie urist]

I don't really like sS change either, but I can't really see an alternative right now. Pfp

[Toaster]

What happens to the target of a Mind Stealer?

[Dariush]

  Spore Spreader becomes a standard Jester
...
This catastrophy will kill all other players in the game

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That was my actual facial expression when I read this. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING MEPH. WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS. This would make the game unplayable. How can anyone, especially you, think that GAME-ENDING FUCKING JESTERS ARE A GOOD IDEA?! I've seriously never seen anything this level of stupid among any professional mods on this forum. I mean... just... why. Just cut out the SSs entirely, but don't butcher the entire gametype. Please.

I vote against the Tech Thief. Too few roles that can use techs, thus too hard and too random a role to play.

Also, you didn't specify how should BD be used.

[Mephansteras]

On the SS:

My reasoning for that is to prevent the SS from being a worthless Jester. With all the kills in Paranormal, losing a day to a Jester Lynch is bad but not necessarily as bad as it would be otherwise. Making people more likely to simply go 'Oh, he's either ObvScum or a SS. Lynch him anyway!'. With the SS ending the game for everyone they can't just play Super-Scum and win on day 1. Which is usually what I see Jesters do, because it's low hanging fruit on day 1 when no one has anything else to go off of and people sort of assume the Day1 Lynch isn't all that important.

I want people to have to think long and hard about lynching what seems like an easy target.

@Toaster
The target is abducted, gone for a day, and returns Alive the following day. Their Role, however, has been stolen so they are now a Vanilla Human/Dopp/Survivor.

This should make the Mind Stealer a bit nastier, and also balances him a bit more. If he steals too many people's roles, he runs the risk of getting stuck with the Win-Con of a team that he's hamstrung.

@Dariush
Body Double only works against Lynches now. This makes it quite useful, but no longer as over powered as it was before.

[Dariush]

What exactly will prevent anybody from claiming SS and just... not doing anything else? Or for SS to simply play just the right amount of badly to get lynched? The game won't ever progress. Everyone will (rightfully) fuss over the risks.

Just make a poll - either SSs get cut out entirely (temporarily, at least) or stay in the current bullshit form. You'll see a nice zero in the latter results.

[Mephansteras]

Because this is a Role-heavy game and it'd be very easy to confirm/kill whomever did that?

Think about it:

  Alien claims SS - dopps WILL kill them because they block their Win-Con while they're alive.
  Human or Dopp claims SS - They will either be Inspected or Killed at the first opportunity. This makes for some interesting War Vet/Sentry Gun scenarios, but otherwise doesn't break the game in any way.

  Also, an actual SS won't make that claim because doing so means they lose. No one will lynch them, and then they can't win at all. It could be an interesting gamble along the lines of 'I claim SS because no one would lynch a SS, meaning people WILL lynch me'. But then you have all the other stuff I mentioned above.

I highly doubt it's a big a deal as you think.

[Toaster]

I have an alternate SS suggestion, and you said it yourself:

On the SS:

losing a day

How about have it cause the next Day to be skipped?  More nights is always pro-scum, so the town actually stands to lose something without ending the game right there.

[Jack A T]

I do not like the idea of a Spore Spreader lynch ending the game (just not a huge fan of most game-ending third parties), but one thing I do generally want with most jesters is some sort of penalty for lynching them.

Not sure what that would be, though.

PPE:

How about have it cause the next Day to be skipped?  More nights is always pro-scum, so the town actually stands to lose something without ending the game right there.

This could work well.

[Mephansteras]

Hmm...that might be an option. Kind of like the Beloved Princess role...

I guess it could make everyone sick overnight and out for the next day while they recover. That would work thematically.

[Dariush]

Here's a setup. I'm playing unintentionally badly and am about to get lynched. I see this and bump my level down a notch, beginning to play outrageously badly. Ta-da - instant concentrated WIFOM. Even better if I'm a PGO.

I'm telling you, don't do this. Please. For puppies.

[Leafsnail]

   Deadman Bomb becomes Hold-out Blaster: If the Alien is lynched, he pulls out the blaster and gets to shoot a single target before dying. If he is night-killed, he gets a shot off on his attacker (although he still suffers the effect of the attack). This is a one-shot item.

Good.  What happens if the alien is day/ morning killed?

Body Double gets a nerf: A perfect body double. It could be organic, robotic, even a hologram. Regardless, it takes his place in dangerous situations while he stays safe. This allows him to escape a Lynch by having the body double destroyed in his place during the day. It's a one-use item, though, so he's vulnerable after it's been destroyed.

The nerf is welcome but it's still a pretty dull item that doesn't do much other than eat a town lynch (making it a scum-only choice really).

Mind Control Ray loses the restriction on the MC'd action's target: Once per game the MS can use the Mind Control Ray to choose another player's target for the night. If the player does not have a night action (and is not the dopp chosen for the night kill), or if the player has a limited-use night ability and chose not to use it, then no action occurs. The Ray also allows the Scientist to control that player's vote during the next day and may change it as often as he wishes. Its effect is fairly obvious, however.

I'm not sure what the change is.  Does the MC get used up if it's not hitting someone with an action?

Role Changes:
  Spore Spreader becomes a standard Jester: This alien organism has been engineered to spread by spores and prepare earth for a take-over by depopulating the planet. The only thing is that the host has to die for the spores to spread. Whenever the Spore Spreader is about to be lynched it will prepare itself for the spores to be relesed and then spred them upon death. This catastrophy will kill all other players in the game, preventing any other win-cons from being fulfiled (except for an Exterminator)
    Victory: The Spore Spreader must be lynched.

I don't like this one.  It's just too easy to win with and ruins the game for everyone else, potentially on day one.  It also means the town will be scared of lynching people even if they're acting really scummy.

In my opinion for a jester to be viable in a larger game they need drawbacks.  Like maybe they can only win by being lynched on day 3 onwards (maybe modify the exact day depending on game size) - that way they'd have to suddenly change their behaviour from "survivor" to "jester" and it would be a lot more feasible for the town to work out what's happening.  It also makes perfect sense flavour-wise, they need to allow their spores to mature before spreading them.

New Role:
Harvester
    Race: Alien
    Goal: Kill/Find
    Rules: The Harvester is collecting things for its own purposes. There are three different types of Harvesters
      Organ Harvester - The Abducted player is killed. The Harvester acts as a Doom Speaker, and is building an Abomination from the parts of those killed. After some # of kills (based on player count) the Abomination is released and performs a Night Kill attempt on every player.
      Mind Stealer - Copies the Role from the Abducted player for the following day/night as well as the Win Condition of that player until a new one is acquired. The abducted player reverts to a vanilla role for the rest of the game(Aliens will all become survivors). If the Mind Stealer doesn't have any other goal, then it is a Survivor.
      Tech Thief - Needs to steal X amount of tech. Like the Xenozoologist, but tech based rather than Player type based.
    Tech: 1 Medium Slot (Tech Thief only)
    Victory: The Hivemind wins when all opposing groups are dead and the town has no way of stopping them (Vig, War Vet, etc)


Still pondering the Tech Thief to decide if it's worth putting in, or what changes would make it more interesting.

The victory condition seems incorrect on these ones?  The tech thief seems a bit chance based and hampers roles like the exty which are already fairly hard.  The Mind Stealer is basically a super-agent who can choose his alignment so I don't like it.  Harvester seems ok but without an "X" it's hard to know whether it'd be balanced.

[Hapah]

PFP

I like Toaster's idea

[Mephansteras]

Oh, yeah, the Harvester's victory set didn't get filled in properly.

It's basically dependent on type. Organ Harvester wins by killing everyone, Mind Stealer wins with whatever win-con they have at the end of the game, and Tech Thief would win if they steal enough tech.


Leafsnail's idea of moving the SS's win condition up to the 3rd day (or along those lines) is also interesting. As they have to survive long enough to even have a chance to win by lynching.

EDIT:

To answer some questions:

The Hold-out Blaster does not help in the case of a Day/Morning Kill, as those are performed by a bot.

The Mind Control Ray used to prevent you from having the person target themselves. That restriction has been removed.

[Leafsnail]

Oh, ok.  That makes the MC ray significantly more appealing for town.