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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[ToonyMan]

Somewhere around Round 4.  That's when there was Dopps, Humans, and Aliens?

Main problem right now is three or four things:

1.  The Lurkers/Flakers, I can't stand some players now, but it's hard to avoid them...I don't care if you bash me or whatever, just make sure to PLAY THE GAME.  This is an over-all problem though.

2.  Too many roles that aren't being tested, maybe on paper IF THAT.

3.  Exterminator gets no love.  :[

4.  Being a townie.  Heeheee.  I've been in ONE game so far in which I wasn't a townie and the game didn't have that many problems with it.  The one when I was a Psychic Warden.  I thought Paranormal was role heavy, but I get no roles!

[forsaken1111]

Maybe we should eliminate the town and do cult vs dopps.

Or just guarantee no vanilla townies

[forsaken1111]

or perhaps just make sure everyone has an active role, not one that relies on other people's actions to function. Maybe passive roles should be separate?

[Frelock]

I personally don't see what's wrong with the mad scientist as is.  The only real unbalancing thing about it is the possibility of the dopps using an assasin bot to win at lylo, like in Round 11.  A solution is to just remove the assassin bot or up the weight in the script for dopps.  Other than that, I can't think of a single instance where the mad scientist has had a huge contribution either way.

Personally, I think the game is fairly balanced as is (though with the addition of the werewolf and vampire, that may not be true).  The only reason that Round 11 seemed so unbalanced is that the dopps got really lucky: 2 townies killed other townies, web got himself lynched, they successfully converted the vigilante and day-killed the enchanter (if we hadn't hit that enchanter, I would have been obvious scum).  They also were not blocked by either the vengeful guard or the guardian either night.  If that many things go right for the dopps and they don't win, I might call the game unbalanced in the town's favor.

I will, however, agree that the seekers always seem to win, though thus far it's mostly been with the help of a CT.  So perhaps they could use with some balancing.

I also don't see why you dislike semi-redundant roles, Janus.  They're still somewhat different.  For example, we have a role cop, a normal cop, and an action cop (the telepath) which tells what type of action the person was taking that night.  I see nothing extremely redundant there; they're all doing different things.

[ToonyMan]

Last one was/is just my bad luck, nothing bad on Meph's part.

[Pandarsenic]

I personally don't see what's wrong with the mad scientist as is.  The only real unbalancing thing about it is the possibility of the dopps using an assasin bot to win at lylo, like in Round 11.  A solution is to just remove the assassin bot or up the weight in the script for dopps.  Other than that, I can't think of a single instance where the mad scientist has had a huge contribution either way.

Dopp Mad Scientist claims Doppelganger when he has body double; town lynches correctly, still loses.

[Frelock]

Then rate a dopp mad scientist the same as, say, a dopp detective.  Makes it very unlikely it will ever show up, and give the town plenty of counters if it does.  I do recall Org being a dopp mad scientist with a body double one game, and the dopps still lost.

[Pandarsenic]

Well to be fair, Webadict basically handed us the win on a silver platter.

You just have to be fully intending to break Lylo by doing that, like we were with the Assassin Bot.

[Leafsnail]

Or just hoping to have your arse saved from an early lynch/ NK.  Org was also a Reviver in BYOR and the town still won with my unintentional help .

[Mephansteras]

So, right now we have this list of roles:

Vanilla Townie
Doppelganger
Advanced Doppelganger
Doppelganger Leader
War Vet
Vigilante
Agent
Detective
Telepath
Reporter
Medium
Guardian + Bodyguard Variants  (2 total per side)
Psychic Warden
Mad Scientist
Enchanter
Alien Scientist
Alien Survivor
Alien Exterminator
Alien Operative

Ability: Mind Shield
Ability: Kook

Everyone comfortable with that role set for round 12? We can then start tweaking things after that.

[Leafsnail]

That would be a nice testing round, I think.

Would the Alien Scientist be changed a bit?  Having to grab the only other alien in the setup could be pretty tough...

Also, the Mad Scientist has a couple of balance issues when given to the dopps.

[Mephansteras]

Mad Scientist will be given a higher weight for the dopps.

Alien Scientist...I think is fine. We'll have to see, but I like him having to capture the other alien since it gives him a reason to care about the Exterminator and gives the Survivor good reason to keep his mouth shut.

[webadict]

Mad Scientist will be given a higher weight for the dopps.

Alien Scientist...I think is fine. We'll have to see, but I like him having to capture the other alien since it gives him a reason to care about the Exterminator and gives the Survivor good reason to keep his mouth shut.

You know what's really interesting? The Advanced Doppelganger is actually a lot better the more expensive everything is. Since it's randomly given out when there's really expensive stuff, it's a lot better because they basically take out a good role and replace themselves with a whole 'nother player.

[JanusTwoface]

I think that that should be fine.  It removes a decent amount of the complexity while still keeping the core of the game: a role-heavy, paranormal themed mafia.

Alien Scientist should be fine.  So long as there is at least 1 other Alien, then it's possible for him to win.  It's been somewhat over easy in the past, this might make it a little more difficult.

Will the Mad Scientist be the version from games past, just weighted more heavily against the dopps?

[Mephansteras]

The Alien Scientist only shows up if there is at least one other alien, so he should be fine. Especially since all other aliens now stick around until the end of the game (unless they die).

Yeah, the Mad Scientist won't change this time around, he'll just be more expensive for the dopps. We can tweak him later if we want.