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Author Topic: Prospector, a roguelike in development  (Read 284731 times)

Gabeux

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #390 on: June 14, 2009, 01:40:36 am »

Well I'm kinda in love for Gearhead 1 right now, but I'll try out your new version.

Btw, take into consideration the colonisation/etc option...


Building/Colonizing/Survival are really tough keywords that aren't easily found, nor with good enough examples of good executions and concepts.

So they are good things to think about, and can really make a game a big success...

Prospector is simple, and really fun. Still, after you find everything, or get a way to make some nice money, it loses the [re]play value. Adding colonization/building etc will make it HUGE.
It'll be hard, but will take the game to a really, really unique formula...

ps: sorry i'm drunk
But i tried to make some sense..
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It honestly feels like a lot of their problems came from the fact that their entire team was composed of cats, and the people who were supposed to be herding them were also cats.

magellan

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #391 on: June 14, 2009, 02:00:20 am »

Well, the beeps *can* be helpfull. And the last oxygen warning does come a tad late...

Next realease won't be that big. The bugs posted here (and elsewhere) fixed, 1 new special planet, playing around with chances for stuff in an attempt to make the non special planets more interesting, jetpack fuel. thats about it.

Making a fun little game was my goal of course. So i am quite happy to have achieved that to some degree. :)
Humm... just had an idea how that colonization thing could work... another "deliver the package" quest, but the package is a ship full of colonists, the package is wherever you want, and conditions on said wherever have of course an influence on how fast they start building shops and such. *goes hmm*
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Prospector, my space exploration roguelike:
http://code.google.com/p/rlprospector/

Gabeux

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #392 on: June 14, 2009, 02:10:02 am »

I really understand about you wanting to make a "small and fun game": you accomplished that goal, really. But still, there's so much potential.. [not only for Prospector, but for a next game, maybe?]

Go and look for the games that is similar to yours: REALLY old, but there are people still having fun with'em...

I mean, colonizing, exploring, building, surviving, combat, trading etc...all in one game?

Building is AWESOME, colonizing is AWESOME, Adventure/Exploring is AWESOME, Survival is AWESOME, Combat is NECESSARY, Economy is NECESSARY.
Take X3: Terran Conflict for instance, its AWESOME, but lacks colonizing [and needs HEAVY hardware - can't run it smoothly here..]. It's not about the scale/gfx/etc.. but about the features..

Maybe the game I have in mind is too complex..
I dunno, I still wait for a game that will feature it all....
Kerberos' Northstar will feature like 60% of it...

But I keep thinking that Prospector feels like a Prototype for something really big. :]



--
[EDIT]: About Colonization:
There could be a new Station, a Colonizers Station or something like that, where they would give you missions to map a planet / search for a suitable planet / clean a nice planet out of critters / BUILD !!!........ things like that  ::)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 02:25:07 am by Gabeux »
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It honestly feels like a lot of their problems came from the fact that their entire team was composed of cats, and the people who were supposed to be herding them were also cats.

magellan

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #393 on: June 14, 2009, 02:23:45 am »

Oh, the colonizing thing is definitely something in the back of my head. Not sure how to do it though.
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Prospector, my space exploration roguelike:
http://code.google.com/p/rlprospector/

BishopX

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #394 on: June 14, 2009, 11:37:33 am »

There are lots of interesting possibilities!

You could have missions to deliver colonists to X System.

You could have missions to deliver colonists where ever.

You could find a lost planet of regressed humans and set up an outpost.

You could find a planet of intelligent aliens who will mine for you in exchancge for supplies, but you have to leave various members of your crew there.

You could receive a mission to protect a colony from pirate raiders, and in exchange get some control of the colony or a preferential trade agreement.

You could conquer a pirate planet and turn them into good citizens of the universe.
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magellan

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #395 on: June 14, 2009, 02:30:47 pm »

Oh, it's less the what, but more the details of the how as in how to control the colony and how much influence the player has on them.
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Prospector, my space exploration roguelike:
http://code.google.com/p/rlprospector/

Kishmond

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #396 on: June 14, 2009, 05:18:30 pm »

I really understand about you wanting to make a "small and fun game": you accomplished that goal, really. But still, there's so much potential.. [not only for Prospector, but for a next game, maybe?]

Go and look for the games that is similar to yours: REALLY old, but there are people still having fun with'em...

I mean, colonizing, exploring, building, surviving, combat, trading etc...all in one game?

Building is AWESOME, colonizing is AWESOME, Adventure/Exploring is AWESOME, Survival is AWESOME, Combat is NECESSARY, Economy is NECESSARY.
Take X3: Terran Conflict for instance, its AWESOME, but lacks colonizing [and needs HEAVY hardware - can't run it smoothly here..]. It's not about the scale/gfx/etc.. but about the features..

Maybe the game I have in mind is too complex..
I dunno, I still wait for a game that will feature it all....
Kerberos' Northstar will feature like 60% of it...

But I keep thinking that Prospector feels like a Prototype for something really big. :]

Infinty is an up-and-coming MMO that might be worth taking a look at if you like this kind of stuff. Though it's still a long way from completion.

Gabeux

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #397 on: June 14, 2009, 06:13:26 pm »

Infinty is an up-and-coming MMO that might be worth taking a look at if you like this kind of stuff. Though it's still a long way from completion.

Yep. I keep checking it up every month to see how it's coming, but it's easily noticeable that it will take a long time to complete.
But it's really nice, the ideas etc..

I've been looking at the development of the Star Wars Galaxies Emulator progress, but SWG is too much of a grinder/MMORPG kind of thing, and I don't know if it features colonization..
But the economy [at least by reading about it] is nice..

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It honestly feels like a lot of their problems came from the fact that their entire team was composed of cats, and the people who were supposed to be herding them were also cats.

wallish

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #398 on: June 14, 2009, 10:10:38 pm »

Oh, it's less the what, but more the details of the how as in how to control the colony and how much influence the player has on them.

Well, some ideas to hit you with:

  • Players just drop off colonists on a planet that meets certain conditions (breathable atmosphere, temp range, etc
  • As time passes, players receive requests for supplies.  Planet A (which the player helped colonize) sends a radio message saying "We need 400 crates of food, we'll pay 30cr/crate"  or "We need 25 barrels of water and 50 crates of construction materials.  Payment of 3200cr upon delivery" or even "Pick up 10 colonists from Station A and bring them here for 5100cr", "Come here and kill these annoying natives, we'll pay 200cr a head", etc.
  • You don't own the colony or control it in any way.  You're still just a freelancer but now you have a bit more running around to do.  Of course, throw in a couple AI transports that do this as well and you can still receive jobs (and you'll have competition).  However, if you don't keep up with the colonies they may stagnate or die out.  While this won't affect you too badly (after all, you'd just end up where we are now) it might be more beneficial to help them out.
  • Colonies grow in two areas: population and infrastructure (both integers).  When you scan a planet you see the data (e.g. 12 citizens, 22 of 100 infrastructure).  At certain points of pop and infrastructure the planet gains new services, but also has increased demands (bringing more incentive to help them grow).  For example, a planet with at least 20 citizens and 30/100 infrastructure may build a landing pad that allows for refueling.  30 citizens and 50/100 infrastructure brings in repair pad and munitions depot.  100 citizens and 100 infrastructure and the planet is as set up as (or better than) a station.
  • Maybe down the line colonists will expand their requirements to allow for slightly dangerous planets (thin atmosphere, high/low temp, etc) and will slowly terraform.

There's all kinds of things that can be done that make it seem more complicated than it is.

As for other features not related to colonization:

  • Deployable rovers that you just dump on a planet and leave for a time.  While gone they slowly explore the surface and gather materials present.  Come back to pick them up and you download the data/retrieve the minerals.  (If satellites do this please disregard.  I haven't used them yet...)
  • Stellar anomalies such as black holes (pulls a ship in if too close, but is surrounded by valuable materials), single/multiple use wormholes (shoots your ship across the sector, permanent wormholes would be better because of fuel use and death if you get stranded), and large inter-solar dead planets that do not orbit a star but instead travel on a path through the sector (completely dark so you'll need lights to see, COVERED in valuable materials but extremely dangerous to stay on for too long)
  • Nano plagues.  A planet being slowly consumed by a Von Neumann swarm that eats away at the surface.  Make it a special planet or make the swarm move from planet to planet leaving a trail of barren rock worlds.  Only by destroying the hub (while it is in space, of course) can you stop it.  Would make an awesome danger to colonized planets or even stations. (Which brings up another missions the colonists can give: Stop oncoming dangerous event like asteroid or pirate fleet, etc)
  • Multiple corporations which might recruit your for a contracted period (30 turns, etc).  Different corporations give different missions and different benefits.  Joining a mercenary wing can give you access to special weapons, exploration corp (Interplanetary Expeditions, anyone?) gives you better engines, etc.  Each corp gives access to special hulls as well
  • As mentioned above, terraforming is always welcomed.  And it doesn't have to be friendly terraforming.  Planet A hate Planet B?  Maybe they have you drop off the "Atmospheric De-Oxygenator" that slowly drains away the atmosphere until everyone dies and the planet becomes barren, all with the payment of 15000cr directly to your account.  This of course brings about...
  • Reputation.  Do good things you get a positive reputation and vice versa.  If you show that you're willing to genocide a whole planet for big money the more "moral" of the groups might not want to do business with you.  Hell, even the bad guys might steer clear.  Ideally, it wouldn't be the class 1D good<-->bad scale, but would instead be 2D: left and right are Amoral<-->Ethical (or Evil and Good).  Up and down are Loyal<--->Ruthless(Lawful and Chaotic, whatever).  This might warrant a bit more discussion below...

Let's say a player receives that mission to drop the terraformer on Planet B for 15000cr.  Planet B gets wind of this and offers you 25000cr to turn around and drop it on Planet A.  And let's say that an arbitrary number is assigned as a "danger rating" for this mission, let's say 12 (with 20 being the highest).  If you accept either you receive a shift in the Amoral direction.  If you betray Planet A you get points towards Ruthless.  If you turn down Planet B after accepting A's you get points towards Loyal because you didn't betray that first group.  If you turn down Planet A's mission, giving the reason of "I don't genocide" you get points towards Ethical. If you turn it down because of the danger you get points towards Ruthless.

Now, pirates would have no problem working with a person who is completely amoral.  In fact, they might seek you out.  A disloyal person, however, they'd feel iffy about working with.  Why trust somebody that will just sell you out to a higher bid?  A person who is completely Ruthless and Amoral would be ultimately self-centered.  Ultra-capitalist.  Has a library of every Ayn Rand book.  Does what benefits only him(or her) self.   A person who is all the way Ethical and Loyal is the ultimate Paragon of Justice.  Hunts down pirates without mercy and destroys all those that threaten/go against their ideal of good.  This is your Judge Dredd, killing "criminals" without a thought because the law must be enforced no matter the casualties.

Neither of these sides is "good" or "evil".  A completely selfish person might never do anything that can be considered "evil".  A Ethical/Loyal player can have killed off entire planets if the cause is considered just (you must wipe out the alien scum that threaten our peace!), while the Ruthless/Amoral player would have turned the job down (Amoral = "Your faction warfare does not concern me").

To encourage the player to work towards different ratings and actually care, give each quadrant of the 2D axis a specific faction.  And, make those faction opposites at war (quadrant I is at war with quadrant III but on uneasy terms with quadrants II and IV).  Corporations would, of course, lie along either neutral axis.


I think all of these ideas emphasize the "freelancer" feel of the game.  Not sure if that's your goal or if you'd rather take it in more of a space management direction, but to me running a colony seems too... fixated for this game.  Give the player a sense of character, make them mean something other than just a name and a bank account.  Even give the crew a sense of character by giving them (fixed) alignments which influence who you hire.

Hell, throw in import/export of characters so you can start a game with an old (even revived) character that is essentially a new player but with your existing alignment (so you can start the game Ruthless or whatever).  Not allowing revival even makes player deaths all the more epic, e.g. your character that you've won with six times over is finally killed at the age of 42 after being betrayed by his gunnery officer.

As usual though I have to end this post with a "keep up the awesome work"!
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Neonivek

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #399 on: June 14, 2009, 10:46:17 pm »

I don't know.

True Colonisation seems like an after game goal when you have near endless amounts of cash.

The Colonisation present in the game should be scouting planets capable of supporting life and shipping colonists and equipment to the planet.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #400 on: June 14, 2009, 11:17:19 pm »

 Really, such colonies would have to be formed around a strategic resource. Like scientists researching an exotic planet. Or miners mining. Or a military base hunting down pirates.
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magellan

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #401 on: June 15, 2009, 02:54:36 am »

whoah... thanks for the input wallish! (and neonivek and duke)
As for rogue planets: Point taken. they are not dark enough, but hard enough to find already obviously ;)
(in case that was too subtle: there are interstellar planets without a sun already. They are rare, hard to find, have above average resources, but aren't darker than your typical last orbit world or any deadlier)
For wormholes the map is too small i think, but it's somehow a must have like green suns... same goes for black holes. A bigger map would of course be easy to acomplish.

a thing of course is that suspension of disbelieve breaks at different points. Neonivek for example seems to have his stretched slightly by close combat weapons who outperform guns, yet seems to have little problems with suns he can't see unless he is standing next to them.
Mine would be stretched quite a bit when a colony had for example 10-25 colonists. I just can't imagine people colonizing planets starting with almost an adam and eve scenario.
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Prospector, my space exploration roguelike:
http://code.google.com/p/rlprospector/

yamo

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #402 on: June 15, 2009, 11:47:35 am »

"Mine would be stretched quite a bit when a colony had for example 10-25 colonists. I just can't imagine people colonizing planets starting with almost an adam and eve scenario"

you could bring a supply of frozen, diverse zygots for in situ implantation.
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Then again, I consider Infinity to be overly ambitious, something that might easily spell it's downfall.


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wallish

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #403 on: June 15, 2009, 04:07:12 pm »

whoah... thanks for the input wallish! (and neonivek and duke)
As for rogue planets: Point taken. they are not dark enough, but hard enough to find already obviously ;)
(in case that was too subtle: there are interstellar planets without a sun already. They are rare, hard to find, have above average resources, but aren't darker than your typical last orbit world or any deadlier)

Whoa, really?  That's awesome!

Quote
For wormholes the map is too small i think, but it's somehow a must have like green suns... same goes for black holes. A bigger map would of course be easy to acomplish.

Well, with a small map the wormholes could be one time (or limited) use to compensate.  A bigger map is always welcome though. :)
Quote
Mine would be stretched quite a bit when a colony had for example 10-25 colonists. I just can't imagine people colonizing planets starting with almost an adam and eve scenario.

Eh, early colonies would probably be scientific in nature, much like in real life.  When we finally get around to putting colonies on the Moon or Mars they'll probably consist of no more than 100 people (read Kim Stanley Robinson's epic Mars Trilogy for ideas on that front, or at least the first book "Red Mars").  So a small "colony" (read; outpost) of 10-25 scientists would make perfect sense.  Hell, it even makes population transport easier in a gameplay and story sense as you have to deal with scientist rotation and/or increased need for specialization as an outpost grows.
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Gabeux

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Re: Prospector, a roguelike in developpement
« Reply #404 on: June 15, 2009, 04:56:49 pm »

Poor magellan, we're just storming him.



Sorry if you are making a game that can reach the valey of uniques haha

--
Ps: I already had so much fun without BUILDING OR COLONIZING
ZOMG IF I COULD @_@
By the way, let me spoil some fun:

Firing desintegrators and the "end-game" weapons and killing everything on a planet makes you think about a lot of stuff.
lol.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 04:58:27 pm by Gabeux »
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It honestly feels like a lot of their problems came from the fact that their entire team was composed of cats, and the people who were supposed to be herding them were also cats.
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