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[Village_Idiot]

are we talking about orc or morul/ironblood body parts? Orc body parts can easily fly 17 z-levels after being smashed in a solid rock face by a legandary hammerdwarf witha masterfull iron warhammer and such. So morul will probably take out mars with an orc left upper leg...

But seriously, has anyone ever tested if objects such as body parts can fly so high they disappear from the map? Or do they just hit a magic ceiling and fall down again?

[Kroack]

The contingency plan is the most bad ass plan in all of video games, right up there with the forerunners and the rings.

Sure. Well I wasn't talking about the 90s game but that is pretty cool too.

[Martin]

Another siege. 5 squads.

I extended the main entrance to now include the long tunnel that Morul once sent an orc on a rocketsled ride down. Two 3-wide drawbridges give caravan access and a drawbridge at the very end allows a number of squads to get locked in. Two got trapped in the tunnel this season and Morul took out the other 3 squads first, breaking the siege, and then took out the two in the tunnel. Much more efficient.

487 kills now and another attribute (I haven't looked up which one). He's much more efficient with the hammer than the mace - more flying orcs and less time stuck in a pile. I'm going to increase the orc size in the raws to stretch the battles out a bit further. He's up to adept hammerdwarf, so that's making somewhat better progress than mace did. Next will come the pointy things - I think I'll start with spear since waiting until Morul is stronger is probably not a great idea. Since I'm trying to keep the pop under 80 so the community will have any megabeasts to play with and the pop is currently at 74, losing a champion or two won't cause me to shed a tear.

[Martin]

Another siege - 4 squads. Used the tunnel again to good effect. Morul was able to get them all. 551 kills. The siege snuck up on me before I could change the raws, so I'll do that now. We're making adamantine plate mail to try and get the sieges to be larger and more frequent. At 360K per masterwork set, it should get the job done. More valuable than statues for the material cost, even when you install them for the double value.

[Derakon]

You could decorate bolts with adamantine if you're willing to use an exploit to really rack up the wealth. Er, assuming bolts can be studded with metal, which I can't offhand remember.

[Martin]

Mayday sent me the formula and Morul is level 166.

I can't believe I forgot about studding ammo. I've got a mountain of masterwork ammo.

[crash2455]

I posted this in Nist Akath as well.

Okay, so I've finally run some battles.  As Martin requested, I'm doing a few sets of fights wherein neither Ironblood nor Morul had any equipment, aside from their damaged clothes.  I should also mention that I'll be doing some fights with weapons later on.

I tried to keep the conditions as balanced as possible:  Rounds follow with the fighters in the following DC conditions: Round 1 Morul as inv1, Round 2 Captain as inv1, Round 3 Morul as Inv2, Round 4 Captain as inv2, and repeating from there. 

The videos for the fights are posted here, though I did post the results of each round.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So far, things aren't looking good for the Captain.  Out of sixteen battles, he has won 5, only 3 of which he won without taking any damage.  Meanwhile, Morul has won 11 battles, 9 of which were won flawlessly.  Also, rounds 12 and 13 are certain to make Benny Hill smile from some place beyond the grave.  Also, I think a few of these recordings got messed up, but I didn't find that out until I had already uploaded them. 

-Run One Step at a Time-
Round 1: Morul (flawless)
Round 2: Morul (flawless)
Round 3: The Captain (brown injuries)
Round 4: Morul (flawless)
Round 5: The Captain (flawless)
Round 6: Morul (flawless)
Round 7: Morul (flawless)
Round 8: Morul (flawless)
Round 9: Morul (brown injuries)
Round 10: Morul (flawless)
-Run in Realtime-
Round 11: The Captain (flawless)
Round 12: The Captain (red wounds)
Round 13: Morul (flawless)
Round 14: Morul (flawless)
Round 15: Morul (Red wounds)
Round 16: The Captain (flawless)

[LostNumber]

That Morul is beating the Captain is, at the same time, very very wrong and oh so right.

[Martin]

It's really hard to get single shot kills with no weapons. The weapon damage values + modifiers are what really do all the work.

In a hand-to-hand match, Morul's higher toughness puts the odds well in his favor if the combat formula that was posted before is accurate. With about 2x the toughness as Captain (and equal strength), it makes sense then that he's winning 2x the battles in this setting.

I think once the weapons come into play, it'll even up. Morul's slightly higher agility should let him dodge a bit better, but if Captain gets a hit in (and with higher skills, he might do this very consistently), Morul will be done for.

If armor works the way I think it does, Morul's usual armor + toughness might stop Captain cold, even with an axe. The armor should add a LOT in Morul's favor.

[crash2455]

I posted this in Nist Akath as well

Morul vs Ironblood, now with weapons!

Alright, so for this set of fights, I have given Morul an =Adamantine Mace= and The Captain a =<<-Steel Battle Axe->>=.  I figured since they're fighting each other in their clothes, the quality and material of the weapon really don't matter that much since these guys can kill each other in one punch.

I also noticed that the invaders tend to pause for a few seconds before fighting, so I placed the fighters farther apart.

Fighters will fight in the following conditions:  Odd Rounds Morul will be inv1, and Even rounds the Captain will be inv1.  Let the battle begin!

Rounds 1 - 10

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Round 1: The Captain (flawless)
Round 2: The Captain (flawless)
Round 3: Morul (brown wounds)
Round 4: Morul (brown wounds)
Round 5: Morul (flawless)
Round 6: Morul (flawless)
Round 7: The Captain (flawless)
Round 8: Morul (brown wounds)
Round 9: Morul (flawless)
Round 10: The Captain (flawless)

Okay, so the difference in equipment was apparently enough to count, since the captain only won if he wasn't hit.  I'm doing another ten rounds with The Captain having a *Adamantine Battle Axe*.  I'm not giving Morul a better weapon because at this point the difference in damage bonuses is 1000% (The captain) vs 900% (Morul) as opposed to the original 293% vs 900% bonus difference.

Rounds 11-20

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Round 11: The Captain (flawless) Game paused before hit
Round 12: The Captain (flawless) captain was shot at and became enraged
Round 13: The Captain (flawless)
Round 14: The Captain (flawless)
Round 15: The Captain (flawless) One hit
Round 16: The Captain (flawless)
Round 17: Morul (flawless) body parts flew multiple z levels
Round 18: The Captain (flawless)
Round 19: The Captain (flawless)
Round 20: Morul (flawless)

Finally, I decided to give them both Low Grade Copper weapons and see what happens then.

Rounds 21-30

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Round 21: The Captain (flawless)
Round 22: Morul (flawless)
Round 23: The Captain (flawless)
Round 24: The Captain (flawless)
Round 25: The Captain (flawless)
Round 26: Morul (flawless)
Round 27: Morul (flawless)
Round 28: The Captain (flawless)
Round 29: Morul (flawless)
Round 30: Morul (brown wounds)

[Shima]

Looks to me like the weapon skills make quite a large difference.  Since Morul's a higher Wrestler, he kills in hand-to-hand much easier than if Ironblood has his highest weapon versus Morul's.

[Sensei]

QUEST:

Make a mature fortress (ideally 200+ dwarves),
Copy Morul and Ironblood into the game, outside, and set them hostile.
Try to survive!

[Martin]

Looks to me like the weapon skills make quite a large difference.  Since Morul's a higher Wrestler, he kills in hand-to-hand much easier than if Ironblood has his highest weapon versus Morul's.

The wrestler skills are pretty close, but Morul's toughness is almost double that of Captain's - I'm almost positive that's the deciding factor.

Otherwise, Morul has pretty terrible weapon skills compared to Captain with his axe. Morul's only advantage there is agility and avoiding the hits, and that doesn't go all that far - certainly not far enough. The other difference is the type of weapon. I imagine Captain's skill was with hammer rather than axe, Morul would stand a better chance by eliminating the critical advantage of the bladed weapon. Actually, that'd be an interesting experiment - move Captain's high axe skill to hammer and equip him with a hammer and give Morul an axe at his current axe level and see how they fare then.

[Martin]

I started digging out the magma moat (running out of construction projects) which triggered a fey mood - something I haven't had in 10 years. Got an artifact adamantine short sword out of it, which should be fun for Morul to play with.

I know there was some debate over whether artifact weapons/armor have modifiers on them, and might in fact be weaker than masterwork. Did we get any definitive answer on that?

[Sensei]

The wiki says they're identical to Masterwork in damage, but have a better value. I'm not sure whether that's accurate or not.