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[kingpocky]

I'm in the process of preparing to take on the HFS in my first fortress, and I've got quite a few questions. For one thing, I've read that demons are immune to most traps, but vulnerable to upright spike traps. However, the wiki says in the article on pressure plates, "A toggleable trap may prove useless when there is a large amount of invaders walking back and forth over it, as there will not be enough time for it to activate before it is switched again." Does the same problem occur with spike traps, or only things like bridges that have delays? How should I get the spikes to switch as fast as possible? Would simply setting the "pull lever" task to repeat work fine, or is there a better way?

I've also read that there's a problem with trap components melting when exposed to a spirit of fire. It seems like any metal except adamantine has a melting temperature below the body temp. of a SoF, so there's really no way around it. However, there is a question of how quickly they are likely to melt. Does anyone have experience doing something like this? It also poses a problem for my particular fortress, as I'm somewhat limited in natural resources. I have a moderate amount of iron, and a fairly large amount of copper. While copper spikes would likely melt faster than iron spikes, as well as dealing less damage, I could set my weaponsmith to pump out copper menacing spikes until I have a few hundred. I need to save a lot of the iron for other important things. It really depends on how big of a difference the higher melting point makes. What do you think? I'm also guessing it'd be wise to order a lot of bauxite for the mechanisms, so that the mechanism doesn't end up melting before the spikes, rendering them useless.

I also need to decide on how to make the approaching hallway so that my marksdwarves can safely get off as many shots as possible. I'm looking at the "Fortress defense" page on the wiki, and there seem to be two viable options. The first one is a zig-zaggy side corridor that is made to be the only path by raising a bridge. The problem with this is that the path is made by channeling out some of the squares, and I think demons would just fly right over them. I could build a maze of fortifications, but then the fortifications wouldn't protect my dwarves any better than the demons. I could make the maze a solid wall instead, but there wouldn't be as much room to shoot. The second one is called the "Reverse Battlement" design, a bridge with fortifications one z-level above the path. It looks good, but I'm not really sure how the game calculates whether a unit can target something on another z-level, and there don't seem to be any pages about it on the wiki. If I want the marksdwarves to be able to fire anywhere at the whole corridor beneath them, do I need to destroy the entire floor over the corridor on their level?

I also have a problem with training marksdwarves. There aren't any trees or cave rivers in the biome, so I can only use imported wood. Thus, my supply of training bolts is limited by whatever lumber is left over after building beds, and whatever bones I can get from animals and goblins. What's the best balance between a few highly-skilled squads of marksdwarves, and several squads of recruits with minimum training?

Anyway, thanks for any advice you can give me. I'm looking forward to this. While I don't mind losing, and I expect to have quite a lot of fun if I do, I'd really like to be prepared as much as possible first, so it's not just a suicide mission.

[Scarpa]

It's more Fun to just dig in and just slog it out.

I opened the pits with just a bunch of Champion wrestlers and they and the SoFs fought it out in the main stairwell. Only about 30 dwarves total died, and it would have been much less if I had set peoples items to be forbidden on death. Most of the casualties were from other civilians running down to claim my initial miner's XPigTail SockX.

[zchris13]

It's more Fun to just dig in and just slog it out.

I opened the !!pits!! with just a bunch of !!Champion wrestlers!! and they and the !!SoF!!s fought it out in the !!main stairwell!!. Only about 30 !!dwarves!! total died, and it would have been much less if I had set peoples !!items!! to be forbidden on death. Most of the casualties were from other !!civilians!! running down to claim my initial !!miner!!'s !!XPigTail SockX!!.

Burninated.

[Jim Groovester]

I think the [redacted] will melt all your non-[redacted] traps and mechanisms before the [redacted] get there. Unless you want to use your precious [redacted] I would just say not to use menacing spikes.

One your marksdwarf problem, use bone bolts. Goblins come in droves, and make a stack of thirty bolts with each corpse.

As for marksdwarf defense against the [redacted], I recommend a set up that looks like this:

Code: [Select]

WWWWW
  W  ...
W W W
W W W
W W W
W W W
W   W
WFWFW
 
WWWWW

I'd recommend changing the length of the hallway and the number of zags. This way, you get the long zig-zags, but your marksdwarfs don't have to shoot through mazes of fortifications. Although, there's a problem with not having very many marksdwarfs to shoot at the [redacted] at a time, but you can stack multiple marksdwarfs on a single tile at a time, and then just move them down the hallway as they [redacted] move through the maze. They won't have any problems shooting while prone, but they may shoot slower, but you can also just stack more marksdwarves on the tile to compensate.

[Walliard]

Also, you can make bolts out of bone, too.

[kingpocky]

If the SoF is likely to melt my traps before they even get a hit in, what will it do to the nearby dwarves? How close do they have to be before they start burning? Would marksdwarves standing behind fortifications take heat damage? Even if it's only a little bit of heat damage, I think I read something about temperature damage covering the entire body, which includes the eyes. That would make them all useless (Except as comic relief. It'd be like the video of Lightning the Blind Crossbow Champion, only a dozen times moreso.) Are worn objects subject to melting too?

I wonder if it'd be worth it to set up a chamber to flood my defenses. I know that a SoF will evaporate any water that comes close to it, so it wouldn't help with the battle - but it might be useful for extinguishing my military dwarves after the battle is over.

[Time Kitten]

Oh, no, not fortifications, that just makes them default to throwing unblockable fireballs. (unless fer legendary wrestle xbowers)

I'm working on and off on designs for specific SoF traps that rely on the heat melting wooden supports... I'm sure 20 tonnes of granite is an effective weapon against each and every one of them.

[kingpocky]

Got another question, but I figured it'd be better to slight-necromancy this thread than create a new one.

I've decided to go with creating a line of copper upright-spike traps anyway. I know they'll melt, but I figure they might get in a few hits first anyway. I'm working on creating bauxite mechanisms so that I can be sure the mechanisms won't melt before the components do, at least. For the mechanisms connecting the traps to the levers, do both need to be bauxite, or only the one used in the trap itself?

[Jim Groovester]

Only the one in the trap needs to be bauxite.

[Shoku]

They don't have many organs to pierce anyway so spike traps aren't very useful.

Now, balista arrows will pretty much smash them to bits but if you still prefer more reasonable sized arrows a full forts worth of untrained marksdwarves can still block out the sun- so long as you have a cat or something chained up in front of them to reveal the thing before it's on top of them.

[kingpocky]

I've set up a long zigzagging hallway for the HFS to run down while being perforated by my marksdwarves. Problem is, I'll also need a shortcut around it, so that if there are any jobs past it (such as mining and collecting adamantine,) my dwarves will be able to get from a to b without spending ten minutes using the long route. It's open now, but when the HFS come, I'll need a way to block it off. I could just build a wall, but it'd be rather inconvenient, as I couldn't risk constructing/removing it if there is still a chance of more demons coming out.

I think a better option would be to use a one-tile wide drawbridge, but I'm not sure if that would work. I know if you attempt to raise or lower a bridge while a HFS is standing on it, the bridge will break - but what about a raised bridge that is forming a wall, blocking off a corridor like a locked door? Do they break down bridges that are just standing there?