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[Akroma]

I think that it depends on how forcefully Yanlin asked her to stop. I mean, if it was similar to this scenario

Yanlin: Could you please stop that, it's difficult to concentrate
Girl: Heathen!

then the girl is in the wrong. If it's like this scenario

Yanlin: Shut up, please
Girl: Heathen!

Then Yanlin had it coming. How did you say it, Yanlin?

According to Akroma, it shouldn't matter how it was said.  They both mean the same thing.

If someone called a homosexual person a fag, it has a different connotation, but according to Akroma it doesn't matter (slang, derogatory, or not)

connotations are for those that actually care

I mean hey, it's some religious idiot, talking to the invisible sky magician because she can't solve her own problems

if you actually care what a person like that thinks about the state of your soul, then so be it, you deserve feeling offended, but you sure as hell have no right to think of yourself as superior to that person

[Akroma]

if someone was wearing a REALLY ugly Tshirt, so ugly that it distracted the hell out of you, you still have no right to tell that person to take off that Tshirt
it's the kind of clothes he likes, and you are a douchebag if you can't respect his tastes

http://www.theurbangrind.net/?p=3053

A boy was sent home for wearing an Anti-Obama t-shirt.  Where's the tolerance to his opinion?  He wore a t-shirt that could be read by anyone, as her prayer could be heard by anyone.  The kid was suspended from school and this girl praying is supported?

suspending that kid from school because of a T-shirt is not justified, everyone has the right to have his own political believes


however sending Yanlin out because he was disruptive is okay
he WAS being disruptive

I mean, even if his arguement was justified, it is still unecessary to carry it out during class

he himself said he wanted to learn

so carrying out a religious arguement with the whole class IS disruptive, isn't it ?

the teacher had the right to diffuse the situation before it detoriated, and did so

[G-Flex]

I mean hey, it's some religious idiot, talking to the invisible sky magician because she can't solve her own problems

You're being a complete jackass.

People have a lot of reasons for being religious, and it's absurd to relegate all of them to the status of "idiot" just because they reach different probably-irrational conclusions about life than the ones you have.

if you actually care what a person like that thinks about the state of your soul, then so be it, you deserve feeling offended, but you sure as hell have no right to think of yourself as superior to that person

It's not about caring what they think of you, it's about not being insulting to people.

[Jackrabbit]

GAH! WHY AM I THE ONLY PERSON ON THE INTERNET THAT CAN NEVER PICK A SIDE!

I'm just gonna go over there in the corner and be apathetic.

[Andir]

however sending Yanlin out because he was disruptive is okay
he WAS being disruptive

I mean, even if his arguement was justified, it is still unecessary to carry it out during class

he himself said he wanted to learn

so carrying out a religious arguement with the whole class IS disruptive, isn't it ?

the teacher had the right to diffuse the situation before it detoriated, and did so

Praying was disrupting his study... but that's okay?  Why is it necessary to carry out prayer in class?

I don't even see why the atheist was offended in the first place


I mean, someone praying out loud

holy shit, that is offensive !

I just started my own religion.  It has it's own religious ceremonies for luck and strength in various situations.

This ceremony involves putting on a gas mask, setting off a mustard gas charge and dancing around the room chanting to the all powerful tin can of energy for luck.  It's been proven to effectively boost it's followers test scores above the average and should be taking up adoption all over the world.

Since this is just a ceremony I do to boost my luck in test taking, and it's a part of my religion, it should be accepted and tolerated by everyone else.  Nobody will be able to ask me to stop, or do it without dancing and mustard gas because without those two things, it can't really work. (IMHO)  I should be given my 5 minutes by everyone else, no questions asked.

[Awayfarer]

GAH! WHY AM I THE ONLY PERSON ON THE INTERNET THAT CAN NEVER PICK A SIDE!

I'm just gonna go over there in the corner and be apathetic.

Room for one more?

[Jackrabbit]

Hell yeah, have a bland cookie.

[Akroma]

however sending Yanlin out because he was disruptive is okay
he WAS being disruptive

I mean, even if his arguement was justified, it is still unecessary to carry it out during class

he himself said he wanted to learn

so carrying out a religious arguement with the whole class IS disruptive, isn't it ?

the teacher had the right to diffuse the situation before it detoriated, and did so

Praying was disrupting his study... but that's okay?  Why is it necessary to carry out prayer in class?

I don't even see why the atheist was offended in the first place


I mean, someone praying out loud

holy shit, that is offensive !

I just started my own religion.  It has it's own religious ceremonies for luck and strength in various situations.

This ceremony involves putting on a gas mask, setting off a mustard gas charge and dancing around the room chanting to the all powerful tin can of energy for luck.  It's been proven to effectively boost it's followers test scores above the average and should be taking up adoption all over the world.

Since this is just a ceremony I do to boost my luck in test taking, and it's a part of my religion, it should be accepted and tolerated by everyone else.  Nobody will be able to ask me to stop, or do it without dancing and mustard gas because without those two things, it can't really work. (IMHO)  I should be given my 5 minutes by everyone else, no questions asked.

first of all, no, it's not OK, but gee I wonder who of them made the bigger ruckus
also, if she sent out the girl instead, the arguement would not have ended, wouldn't it ?
sending Yanlin out was the fastest and most effective way to calm the class down.
Objectively speaking, it was a better decision to send him out.
If she send out the praying girl even before yanlin started acting up, chances are the teacher would have started an arguement that would have costed him his job, so here we are.


also, you are making out of proportion comparisons. the girl didn't put anyone life in danger by praying, now did she ?


once again I have to say that not every religious person is connected to the crusades
this is on a personal level

both sides had the right to be offended, and both sides acted out of proportion

the point is that yanlin was inconsiderate
especially if he is in such a religious environment, he should think before acting
which is a good advice to most situations btw

is it really worth it to interrupt her selfish behaviour with even more selfish behaviour ?

[Andir]

first of all, no, it's not OK, but gee I wonder who of them made the bigger ruckus
also, if she sent out the girl instead, the arguement would not have ended, wouldn't it ?

How can you be sure of that?  The teacher could have asked her to do it silently.  End of story.

sending Yanlin out was the fastest and most effective way to calm the class down.
Objectively speaking, it was a better decision to send him out.

How can you be sure it WAS the fastest and most effective way?  Why?  Is her religion more important than his (and the kids around her) study time?

If she send out the praying girl even before yanlin started acting up, chances are the teacher would have started an arguement that would have costed him his job, so here we are.

Oh, I get it.  It's perfectly fine to send out the non-believer and silence anyone questioning the girl praying, but it's not fine to send out the girl praying and silence anyone questioning the the non-believer?  Double standard much?

also, you are making out of proportion comparisons. the girl didn't put anyone life in danger by praying, now did she ?

No, but she did disturb someone else in doing so.  And you simply asked him to accept, wait for her to finish, then continue.  If the prayer had been a half hour long, that's a half hour of study that he missed.  So where do you draw the line between distraction and tolerance?  Is it okay for someone to clack prayer beads on their desk?  Is it okay for someone of Native American descent to do a little dance for luck (not sure if they had a dance for luck... guessing that they did for hunts, etc.) but it's the idea that matters.  Where is it written that a verbal prayer is perfectly fine, but juggling is not?  they both distract someone in the class.  Should all the kids just ignore the boy dressed in a bell covered vest because his religion says he can wear it for challenges even though the people around him will have to hear the jingling during their test?

the point is that yanlin was inconsiderate
especially if he is in such a religious environment, he should think before acting

School is a religious environment?

Was he being inconsiderate, really?  The person talking during a study session wasn't being inconsiderate at all?

is it really worth it to interrupt her selfish behaviour with even more selfish behaviour ?

That's a good question.  Is it okay to interrupt one person's selfish studying to pray for your own selfishness?

[Servant Corps]

I'm finishing off a Public Speaking class, and our last assignment is a persuasive speech.  Out of sixteen people, four have given speeches on why everyone needs Christ in their life to be happy.

Um...

Wouldn't it be better to say you need Christ in your life or you'll go to Hell (or, worship Christ and you'll stay alive in Heaven)?

That's pretty much more persuasive than asking why everyone need Christ to be 'happy'. Anybody can be happy. They don't need Christ to do that. I can access poll data that can counteract why people need Christ to be happy. I'm sure there are poll data that indicates atheists can be just as happy as Christ, but all the data I know shows that people who follow any religion will be happier than an atheist, no Christ required.

Of course, I'm not a Christian, but I would assume a Chrisitan should argue via that line rather than attempt some concept of 'happiness'.

[Akroma]

you don't seem to be understanding my main point


both of them were rightfully offended

let it word me differently

both of them were wrong

the double standard is that everyone wants to blame the religious girl, and only the religious girl, which is not fair

one has to acknowledge that neither side has acted in a proper way, all else is a very selective view



the best outcomes would have been, after being called a heathen and being told to respect her religion, he shouldn't have started argueing "but atheism is my religion, respect it"
simply because no one so far said anything against atheism, just against him being intolerant towards her faith

the correct defence would have been. "I am not talking about the praying, just about the volume."



anyway, Akroma out

I don't respect you guys enough to keep trying.

[Sergius]

As I see, it, those of religious inclination may go to great lengths to shove their believes down others' throats, but there's no need to drop to their level simply-- especially because you don't agree with them.

That said, atheists and agnostics need to make their presence known, or else the religious cultural "bias" is going to continue. This should simply be done in the most unobtrusive way possible. I'm not entirely sure how to go about that, though.

The problem about being unobtrusive and "making your presence known" is mutually exclusive in the current reality (in an utopia it wouldn't be). Have you heard of lobbying groups? You may think atheists are being "noisy", but the fact is, whenever in history atheist have just shut up and been unobtrusive, more and more rights have been taken from them/laws enforced on them, that have a religious bias.

That's just the way politics work. The reasonable, quiet guy that doesn't antagonize anybody always loses.

[Sergius]

I just started my own religion.  It has it's own religious ceremonies for luck and strength in various situations.

This ceremony involves putting on a gas mask, setting off a mustard gas charge and dancing around the room chanting to the all powerful tin can of energy for luck.  It's been proven to effectively boost it's followers test scores above the average and should be taking up adoption all over the world.

Since this is just a ceremony I do to boost my luck in test taking, and it's a part of my religion, it should be accepted and tolerated by everyone else.  Nobody will be able to ask me to stop, or do it without dancing and mustard gas because without those two things, it can't really work. (IMHO)  I should be given my 5 minutes by everyone else, no questions asked.

Do you accept followers?

[Andir]

you don't seem to be understanding my main point

And you don't understand mine.

both of them were wrong

the double standard is that everyone wants to blame the religious girl, and only the religious girl, which is not fair

Right, both of them should have been asked to leave.  Instead, the boy was asked to leave and the girl was left alone to disrupt everyone else and preach her way.  The teacher just taught every kid in that class that prayer is right, and non-belief is wrong by punishing the boy.

the best outcomes would have been, after being called a heathen and being told to respect her religion, he shouldn't have started argueing "but atheism is my religion, respect it"
simply because no one so far said anything against atheism, just against him being intolerant towards her faith

Her faith doesn't supersede his rights.  It doesn't give her and the students the right to call him anything.  Offensive, politically correct, or not.  She has the right to have faith as long as it doesn't interfere in his rights.  When she interrupts his life, she is interrupting his rights.

the correct defence would have been. "I am not talking about the praying, just about the volume."

Your bias has blinded you.  You've granted her the right to disrupt the class and express her religious views and denied him the right to his religious views.  You support the teacher in the wrong resolution and reinforced the girl's religion by oppressing the boy's views.

I don't respect you guys enough to keep trying.

I'm not even going to touch that last statement... taking offensiveness and ignorance to the next level.

[Muz]

Um.. I just got here. Are we not talking about atheism?