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[mainiac]

Each point of labor put into construction of buildings or of improvements counts as 1.25, and it's computed across all constructions in a turn.
Maybe I should make it +1/3rd.

but resources used aren't changed?


From other thread:

And I'd like to point out, food and luxury consumption rounds up. That means you all need 11 food this turn, and it'll take 2 clothing to get a morale bonus. (Labor rounds down, though.)

That's kinda harsh.  10500 people produce no more labor but increase the requirements dramatically.  This can mean that more workers results in less labor done.  Can't we just turn away 500 immigrants?

You could, I suppose, but then you wouldn't be halfway to your 11th point of labor.

Could luxuries maybe be tracked with a decimal?  For instance: you need at least 1.1 clothes for a city of 10001-10100 people if you want the moral bonus.  However, luxuries are produced in units of 1, meaning that in effect you need to produce 2 before getting a bonus, as before.  What's different is that you only use 1.1 of those clothes in a turn, meaning that the remaining .9 clothes remain stockpiled.

[Strife26]

I'd be okay with the fancy stuff being decimaled, but I like the idea that it gets harder to grow.

And I don't want to have to redo my turn again . . .

[Vanigo]

Each point of labor put into construction of buildings or of improvements counts as 1.25, and it's computed across all constructions in a turn.
Maybe I should make it +1/3rd.

but resources used aren't changed?

Right. Less labor needed, but the same resources.

You could, I suppose, but then you wouldn't be halfway to your 11th point of labor.

Could luxuries maybe be tracked with a decimal?  For instance: you need at least 1.1 clothes for a city of 10001-10100 people if you want the moral bonus.  However, luxuries are produced in units of 1, meaning that in effect you need to produce 2 before getting a bonus, as before.  What's different is that you only use 1.1 of those clothes in a turn, meaning that the remaining .9 clothes remain stockpiled.

No, I want to stay away from fractional resources. Besides, that's what the clothiers' workshops are for.

[Strife26]

But, I'd still end up using two things of wool for 10,001 zefies . . .

[Vanigo]

But, I'd still end up using two things of wool for 10,001 zefies . . .

And you wouldn't (after a few turns) be working quarried hills for the food and stone anyway? Besides, the clothing morale bonus is supposed to be fairly easy to get, but not trivial.
Look, there's going to be some granularity either way, and I'm already thinking it's a good thing I've got so much free time.

[Pandarsenic]

The clothing isn't CONSUMED, though, right? That wouldn't make sense.

[Nirur Torir]

Dwarves eat a set of clothing in three years, and realistically, that's not often enough since they never change.

I agree that too many decimals are kinda a pain to track, but it seems like luxuries shouldn't take a second unit to do anything until there are 11k population units.

Edit - Either way, it's only going to matter for a few turns.

[mainiac]

But tracking clothes in this fashion means that making clothes is basically wasting labor.

w/ a city of 11-19k people, you need 2 clothes, which require 2 labor to make and roughly 1 labor to harvest the wool for, assuming you have the cloth shop.  3 labor a turn in exchange for +1 to morale?  You could just put those 3 labor to harvesting food and get a morale bonus from lots of food instead.

The clothing isn't CONSUMED, though, right? That wouldn't make sense.

Wha?  That would make it a substantially different matter.

[Vanigo]

w/ a city of 11-19k people, you need 2 clothes, which require 2 labor to make and roughly 1 labor to harvest the wool for, assuming you have the cloth shop.  3 labor a turn in exchange for +1 to morale?  You could just put those 3 labor to harvesting food and get a morale bonus from lots of food instead

No, with the clothing shop 1 unit of labor makes 2 units of clothes, so it's more or less 2 labor for +1 morale. More efficient than extra food, especially if you don't have tons of irrigated plains.

The clothing isn't CONSUMED, though, right? That wouldn't make sense.

No, it's consumed. Clothing wears out; people want a new shirt from time to time. 1 unit of clothing isn't 10,000 full sets, it's enough to keep up with the ongoing demands of 10,000 people.

[RPB]

I thought it was established that clothes are actually only 1 labor to make (1 labor per 2 clothes with the clothier's workshop). If you have the workshop, you can effectively clothe up to 20,000 people with basically the equivalent of 2 units of labor (working 2 hills gets you as much food as working 1 plain, not counting rivers/improvements). Getting 5-6 food out of 2 labor is easy for most/all of our starting locations, but "luxury food" scales up at a faster rate (which justifies the clothier's in the long run).

[Pandarsenic]

Yeah, I'm making a Clothier's Shop in a bit. XD

Once I can MAKE GLASS. D:

E: Remind me, what are the rules for multiple improvements on one tile?

[RPB]

The Asykos people reject the decadence of your hedonistic desire for clothes! Scratchy fur loincloths purify the mind and soul!

[Vanigo]

Yeah, I'm making a Clothier's Shop in a bit. XD

Once I can MAKE GLASS. D:

E: Remind me, what are the rules for multiple improvements on one tile?

As a general rule, only one is allowed. The watermill is the only currently known exception; it can share a tile with another improvement.

[Pandarsenic]

All right.

[mainiac]

w/ a city of 11-19k people, you need 2 clothes, which require 2 labor to make and roughly 1 labor to harvest the wool for, assuming you have the cloth shop.  3 labor a turn in exchange for +1 to morale?  You could just put those 3 labor to harvesting food and get a morale bonus from lots of food instead

No, with the clothing shop 1 unit of labor makes 2 units of clothes, so it's more or less 2 labor for +1 morale. More efficient than extra food, especially if you don't have tons of irrigated plains.

It only looks more efficient when you ignore the fact that the sheep don't sheer themselves.  Upgrading hills to be anything but a drain in resources takes more labor then irrigating the landscape.  Pastures take more resources then irrigation.

Irrigation: 2 labor
Pasture: 1 wood +3 labor

Thus the fastest route to being able to afford clothing is probably going to be irrigating two hills, not building a pasture.

Pasture option:
Spend 3 wood/stone and 5 labor building infrastructure (cloth shop+pasture).  Then spend 3 labor a turn producing +1 morale and +1 food.  This means you need another 3 food to support these guys.  So feeding them requires irrigating a plain for another 2 initial labor and spending another labor a turn farming that field.  Total cost: 3wood/stone 7 labor and 4 labor a turn.

Irrigate the hills option:
Spend 2 wood/stone and 6 labor building infrastructure (cloth shop+pasture).  Then spend 4 labor a turn producing +1 morale and +4 food.  The initial investment is only slightly higher (trading 1 labor for 1 wood/stone), but these guys don't need anyone supporting themselves at least.

Or just grow more food:
Spend 6 labor irrigating plains.  Then spend 3 labor a turn producing +9 food.  This is enough for a morale bonus up to 18k people.  This spares a labor every turn however, which could be used to irrigate another tile, giving you a morale bonus up to 24k people (at which point 3 wool are needed...)  Even if you are forced to irrigate marginal land, it's a competitive option.

Summery of total cost
Method      Initial Labor      Invested Resources      Labor Upkeep
Pasture           7                           3                             4
Irrigate hills    6                           2                             4
Grow Food      6                           0                             4 (1 of which is doing further investment)

But of course, all of this is ignoring the much larger problem, which is how does clothing stack up against everything else?  Look at almost any other option available: build a building, build a unit, research a tech.  All of these give you a permanent increase of some sort.  Clothing on the other hand is going to keep burning resources every turn for a marginal bonus.

The way the balance is stacked right now, clothing seems to me like a huge waste of resources.