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[Ampersand]

Doesn't still explain how you can affect the quantum behaviour with something that isn't caused by those neurons, if your consciousness and mind is created by those neurons n stuff.

The answer is simple; subatomic particles have free will.

Maybe my God can violate laws of causality?  I don't know, don't ask me, it was just an example

My point is simply that stating everything needs a cause, then creating something that doesn't need a cause to explain it doesn't actually explain anything.

[LegoLord]

You know what, screw this.  It's an excercise in futility.  Some of you guys are just so set in your ways that no matter what the specifics of a person's belief in a religion are, no matter how tolerant and accepting of others they are, no matter why they believe it, you assume that they are just stupidly believing in fairy tales.  Someone says religion, you think "fairy tale."  I could go to great lengths to explain how my religion is not about whether or not some guy turned water into wine, but rather about how to have good will towards your fellow human beings, and you will still think that every religious person is an stupid.  I can say that I don't give a damn about the story of Adam and Eve as a literally interpreted story, you do not listen.  I can say I don't give a damn what anyone else believes, you still think my fellow christians are all automatically raving fanatics who try to convert every atheist they see, when they certainly aren't.  One of you even went so far as to denounce good manners as a defense against the question of intolerance:

It is not our job to avoid offending you.

So, what?  You think that I'm the only person in the world you can offend with a sweeping statement of a large group?  If not, you think that everyone should just give up on manners and be total dicks to everyone else?

On top of all that, you guys will even put words into my mouth and the mouths of others.  One person said words to the effect of "So how come atheism is more offensive than Christianity?" in response to me.  What?  I specifically said that atheism doesn't bother me.  Which just further convinces me that the whole argument is driven by your prejudice - your desire to hate religion for the sake of hating religion, and to intentionally misinterpret or misread posts to do so.

As a last word, I'd like to congratulate all you atheists and theists who don't treat their theological opposites like that.  I just thought you would like to know why I suddenly dropped from this.  If I post in this again, it won't be taking the argument seriously.

[Neruz]

I assume you are aware that Atheism, being the denial of theism, requires us to deny any and all references to a god or god-like force, regardless of how harmless it may be.

If you are an Atheist, quite simply, you are declaring that God or Gods do not exist, and never have.



Also, fun fact, if we assume that God or Gods require Faith (which is a pretty common underlying theme) then it is impossible to prove the existance of God or Gods, as Faith is Belief without Proof. Once you have Proof, you no longer have Faith, thus proving the existance of God or Gods would, i don't know, do something horrible to them, since there would be no more Faith. Fun with wordses!

[G-Flex]

If you are an Atheist, quite simply, you are declaring that God or Gods do not exist, and never have.

For the hundredth time, no, it doesn't It means, quite simply, that you're declaring that YOU don't believe in any god(s). Atheism doesn't necessitate an actual belief that there is no God, only a lack of belief in one. There's an important distinction here.

[Neruz]

Atheism is defined as either the rejection of Theism, or the position that deities do not exist. Theism is the belief in a deity or deity figure.

Notice that Atheism is not defined as an absense of Theism, but a rejection of Theism.



You're talking about what is philosophically referred to as 'Weak' Atheism, which i personally do not consider to be Atheism (the word does need some better defining, at the moment it's a bit 'fluffy'.) I'm referring to 'Strong' Atheism, which is technically what the term (Rejection of Theism) should mean.



Actually, now that i think about it, saying 'I don't believe that God exists' rather than actually denying the existance of a God is more Agnostic than Atheist. Depends on the cause for your disbelief.

[Ampersand]

Gnosis is Know.

Agnosis is Don't Know.

An Agnostic does not KNOW whether god exists or not. A Christian can be Agnostic. An Atheist can be agnostic.

But Atheism, and Theism have nothing to do with what one KNOWs, only what one BELIEVES to be true.

Furthermore, Atheism and Theism are binary, not opposite.

Theism = Belief in a deity.
Atheism = Not a Theist

What you are talking about is not Atheism when you talk about Rejection. You are talking about Antitheism.

[Reasonableman]

I firmly believe that religion is a fantastic way of getting people ticked off at one another.

Belonging to group of any kind will provoke a conflict with members of some other group, if there are no other groups, people will create new groups for sake of conflict.
Conflict is simply a key part of reality, you cannot remove it or ignore it. Embrace it.

I think you misunderstood me, I meant to postulate that religion is a remarkably useful tool for manipulating people and turning them against one another! Intelligence, perception, age; across all demographics it is an equally flammable topic of discussion: a weapon suitable for all occasions. Much like napalm. Or perhaps white phosphorous.

[Neruz]

Gnosis is Know.

Agnosis is Don't Know.

An Agnostic does not KNOW whether god exists or not. A Christian can be Agnostic. An Atheist can be agnostic.

But Atheism, and Theism have nothing to do with what one KNOWs, only what one BELIEVES to be true.

Furthermore, Atheism and Theism are binary, not opposite.

Theism = Belief in a deity.
Atheism = Not a Theist

What you are talking about is not Atheism when you talk about Rejection. You are talking about Antitheism.

I'm afraid everyone i know and all the internet resources i can uncover define Atheism as 'rejection of theism.' So apparently you're wrong, or the rest of the world is wrong.

Wikipedia says that in the broadest sense Atheism can be the absence of belief in the existence of deities, which creates a curious contradiction, but thankfully i haven't located that definition anywhere else.

[Rashilul]

This thread has a maturity and logic similar to the banned thread.
I was just demonstrating this in the banned thread.

[Neruz]

Apparently there's a misunderstanding as to what 'Atheism' actually is, it seems prudent to clear that up before continuing. Popular definition would have Atheism occupy the 'denial of god' position.

[Ampersand]

A rock is an Atheist. A rock does not believe in god.

[Rashilul]

"God is real!" "No he isn't!" "Yes he is!" "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." "Nuh-uh." "Yuh-huh." for 107 pages! This is why I remain neutral.

[Neruz]

A rock is an Atheist. A rock does not believe in god.

A rock lacks the capacity to believe anything and thus has no place in this discussion. A rock therefore, is a rock.

[Ampersand]

The lack of capacity doesn't matter. It still doesn't believe in god. It either does believe in god or it does not; whether it can or not is another issue.

[Neruz]

Which would therefore mean the Rock is an Agnostic; as it can neither believe in god or gods, nor disbelieve in god or gods. In fact it cannot know anything, thus permanently placing it upon the fence. All of which is completely irrelevant in the face of it's rockishness.