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[RAM]

On the other hand the unknown and uncertain can become known if subjected to scrutiny...

[Ampersand]

I was more getting at the debate that goes something like "You don't know you can know about something you don't know

[Neruz]

"You don't know you can know about something you don't know

*Brain asplode*

[RAM]

You don't know you can know about something you don't know

and
You don't know that knowing about something you don't know is impossible.

Are both almost indistinguishable from claims about the unknown...

Of course, now I am just being pedantic, but I am just so sick of people making arbitrary statements...

[Judas Maccabeus]

"You don't know you can know about something you don't know

...Wow, I didn't know Yogi Berra posted here. 

[Areyar]

Only the ignorant can think they know everything: the more you learn, the more it becomes obvious the great mass of unknown knowledge available. (that is,
ignoring all the stuff that is still a total or partial mystery)

Similarly, recent study has proved:  the inept tend to imagine themselves a superior brand of people above average skills and intellect, while the adept think others to have similar abilities and thus judge themselves as mediocre.
Interestingly when faced with other peoples test results, the inept are unperturbed and still rate themselves as hyperskilled, while the adept adjust their valuation of themselves.
Probably this surreal selfevaluation  results are a residue of highschool life, where greasy nerds are degraded and inept pretty persons glorified.

It is my belief that these inept are generaly employed at positions sucha as human resources, generally this does matter little, but for profesions that require some esotheric education.
Sorry if any HR clerks read this.

[Leafsnail]

I dunno, confidence and style is what's really needed in an HR person, not necessarily pure skill.  Although I'd agree that some of them are idiots...

I suppose it's just the whole culture, really.  Management types get paid twice as much as and boss around more skillful technical people below them, who've studied longer and harder for their jobs.

[Areyar]

my problem with those types is their inability to recognise the required skills in others.

They actually rate themselves as more valuable to company X than the engineers who do the work and scale upthe process to industrial level.

Then when 80% of the schooled people are laid off (but none of management or HR), temps have to be brought in at trice the price (not salary; 75% of the cost goes to the agencies).

Anyway. I am bored by the irrelevant argument going on here.
God is a fantasy, as is all religion, get over it and become atheist.
Facing reality will make the world a little better, thank you.

[redacted123]

I've always found that facing reality has made the world a little worse.

[Leafsnail]

I've always preferred my time as an atheist to my time as a Christian.  Partly because I found the idea of someone watching my every move and forcing me to follow his will deeply sinister.

So I suppose I don't like the idea of a God.  I wouldn't mind the idea of an audience so much, however.  Partly because I have started to narrate my own actions in my head.  It's very weird.

[Areyar]

Only if you require a perfect world.

The world is still the same and as added  bonus your realistic worldview will be true for all people, even when they claim to have oracular visions sent to them by the many tentacled one.

@snail: That seems an indication of either humour or ineternal strife! I hope you do this narrating in your head and not out loud and in public. Personally, I've addopted the humanitarian principles of christianity and discarded all the rest as myth. In fact the same as ancient norse, greek, roman, egyptian and in a lesser degree shintoism, islam, hinduism and buddism were treated in my christian denomination schooling.

Hmm I just discovered a religion previously unknown to me (when checking whether i left one out): Jainism.
It reminds me some of the books of Neal Asher, in which jain are a race of ETs that have destroyed them,selves, but left some very dangerous technology behind.
anyhow it claims to be older than humanity and this is one of their mantras:

A person who is free from delusion (who understands reality), has no misery. A person who is without any longing has no delusion. A person without greed has no longing. A person who does not have possessions has no greed.
(Uttaradhyayan Sutra)

Being free from delusions is a worthy aim,
though i feel they should have stuck to one point. the rest on property and greed seems a bit irrelevant, though delusions can be considdered a costly luxury.

 

[redacted123]

Is it really so wrong to believe in something else? Something beyond the futility of the universe?

[Leafsnail]

Why futile?  And why does believing in a God suddenly make it non-futile?  Sure, you now have the purpose to serve God, but why?  What's His purpose?  Does He need a God to serve too?

[LegoLord]

God is a fantasy, as is all religion, get over it and become atheist.
Facing reality will make the world a little better, thank you.

Go find something better to do than act like a snob who assumes he's right and that his way is better for everyone than any other way is.  Religion is not an escape from reality, by the way.  I think that so far the religious people of this forum have proven they are quite grounded in reality. 

Frankly, I don't think you know much about religion, judging from the fact that you think it is an escape from reality.  There was a discussion about just that on this very thread not long ago.  Your so-called realistic worldview has no truth.  Mainly because it involves the idea that people like me automatically have a head full of pink fluff telling us how nice everything is.  Which I don't.  And I know other religious people like that as well.  I hope you realize just how arrogant and offensive a statement that was.

[redacted123]

Why futile?  And why does believing in a God suddenly make it non-futile?  Sure, you now have the purpose to serve God, but why?  What's His purpose?  Does He need a God to serve too?

I don't believe in God but I would just find him comforting, it would be nice to know that after I die I'll still have a consciousness so that I can look back and think, see how things progress, all that stuff.