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[Osmosis Jones]

Heh, I'm thinking some of the atheists you've met may have only recently (say, the last 5 years) begun to self identify as atheist. In my experience, we tend (Dawkins is an outlier...) to quieten down after we get over the initial heady rush of atheism

That, or we realise arguing over religion is likely headbutting a brick wall.

[Maric]

You explained my atheism quite well  .

I used to love debating with those over the top religious people but after awhile I realized, as the last guy said, arguing over religion is likely headbutting a brick wall.

I stopped now, anyone that mentions religion to me and wants to talk about it I just walk away from.

[Puzzlemaker]

There are people at my college who come and rant at us in the middle of the through-way.  It's a little disturbing.

Also, never, EVER give your phone number out to fanatics, of any kind.  THEY WILL PASS IT AROUND.  Soon you will be getting calls from people you never even heard of before, about things you have no interest in doing.

[jaked122]

Intelligent? The tags broken, I don't know of an intelligent person who'd jump onto a thread and insult people like that.

look at thyself.
the insults are nothing but to get reactions from various people. I don't pretend to know you, and I don't mean anything that demeans you with such intent. I apologize. and this may very well be due to the fact that I am alien to most people(somehow including my friends).

[Michilus]

I believe that all religions are a path to God (and atheism doesn't disqualify you should you do good in life), as do many people. Don't make the mistake of generalizing something like that. We aren't like that, you aren't like that, most of the sane (makin' IWM happy, doot doo dee doo) world is not like that.

Nice point of view. Not Christian however.

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Sounds familiar?

Exodus 23:24
"Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images."

Tolerance is not a Christian value.

[G-Flex]

It's problematic to say what Christian virtues are and then quote friggin' Exodus as proof. Seriously. The tone of the New Testament (or at least a lot of it) is in stark contrast to that of the old, and the Bible is complicated enough and represents enough periods in the religion's history that you could excise the context from ANY quote to prove anything about it.

I mean, the Old Testament also tells you not to eat shellfish, but that's hardly a Christian thing either. Things changed.


Here, have some more relevant quotes.

⁸Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. ⁹Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. ¹⁰For,
   "Whoever would love life
      and see good days
   must keep his tongue from evil
      and his lips from deceitful speech.
 ¹¹He must turn from evil and do good;
      he must seek peace and pursue it.

⁹Blessed are the peacemakers,
      for they will be called sons of God.

⁵²"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

⁴³"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.' ⁴⁴But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? ⁴⁷And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

Just food for thought, really. There are a lot of messages in the Bible, some representative of different ideological periods than others, and some seemingly (or actually) self-contradictory. But tolerance is certainly one of them.

[Leafsnail]

But there lies the problem.  To form an opinion as a Christian, you need to go against and ignore many of God's own words.  Why base your life upon a book that isn't even internally consistant?

[G-Flex]

The thing is that a lot of those words are open to interpretation, and context is important, especially when it's not being literal.

Also, as I mentioned, not all of the book is relevant in all cases. For instance, Christians tend to believe that a lot of the Old Covenant laws and such were kind of phased out after Jesus was around.

[Chutney]

because we never believed the world was flat, nor that the universe was heliocentric.
scientific facts has always been exactly the same over all of time.

[Enzo]

because we never believed the world was flat, nor that the universe was heliocentric.
scientific facts has always been exactly the same over all of time.

Sarcasm doesn't make a point valid. You're actually bringing up one of the main differences between science and religion. Science adapts it's views as new evidence is presented. Religion is the invariable word of God.

(lurks back into shadows)

[Leafsnail]

Also, as I mentioned, not all of the book is relevant in all cases. For instance, Christians tend to believe that a lot of the Old Covenant laws and such were kind of phased out after Jesus was around.

So the words of the all knowing God, the one who creates and defines morality, needs to be "Phased out"?  Why?  As far as I can tell, the fomula for whether to accept or ignore a part of the bible is:

Code: [Select]

Does the passage correspond to my personal beliefs - Y/N
Y - It's fine
N - It's outdatedWhich is all very well, and shows that the vast majority of religious people have a good sense of morality.  But then again, if we can judge which parts are good and which are abhorrant, what's the point of it?

because we never believed the world was flat, nor that the universe was heliocentric.
scientific facts has always been exactly the same over all of time.

You may have accidentally shot yourself in the foot here.  The fact that science changes when new evidence comes around is exactly what makes it different to religion.

[Andir]

Code: [Select]

Does the passage correspond to my personal beliefs - Y/N
Y - It's fine
N - It's outdatedWhich is all very well, and shows that the vast majority of religious people have a good sense of morality.

Since when is believing in that which you feel comfortable with "moral" ?

I'm picking on this a bit, I know, but if I agree that heathens should be stoned, thus making that passage "fine" it doesn't make it moral.  I mean, technically, morality in itself is the distinguishing of right vs. wrong.  But that's a variable thing.  What is right in one generation is wrong in another.  What's good in one country is shunned in another.  Morality is simple putting a friendly term to mob rule.  Mob rule is why our founding fathers didn't make our country a Democracy, but a Republic.  Argue the differences if you will, but there's a definitive reason why we don't run this country by total majority.  The Republic protects our freedom of(and I argue from) religion otherwise the majority would rule it illegal.

We could get into an argument over "core" morals, but where do you draw the line between murder and smoking pot?

[Leafsnail]

So, if you agree that each generation has different moral values, why are we looking back dozens of generations for inspiration into how to live our lives?

My point is that if you're allowed to ignore a bible verse if you disagree with it, then there's almost no point in having a central book to believe in anyway.

[Sordid]

So, if you agree that each generation has different moral values, why are we looking back dozens of generations for inspiration into how to live our lives?

To discover the timeless truths, perhaps? Which doesn't really make any sense, since if they're timeless, then we have them now as well.

My point is that if you're allowed to ignore a bible verse if you disagree with it, then there's almost no point in having a central book to believe in anyway.

It also goes the other way around. If you only take from the Bible those bits that agree with your own ideas and beliefs, then why even bother? You already do have those ideas and beliefs in the first place, since that's what you're filtering the Bible against. So what exactly is the point of doing so at all?

[redacted123]

Mob rule is why our founding fathers didn't make our country a Democracy, but a Republic.  Argue the differences if you will, but there's a definitive reason why we don't run this country by total majority.  The Republic protects our freedom of(and I argue from) religion otherwise the majority would rule it illegal.

I live in a democracy, one without even a written constitution and we seem to be perfectly capable of maintaining freedom of religion.