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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 394731 times)

Muz

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1245 on: September 07, 2009, 01:30:31 am »

I think all the fanatics got warned many times, so there's no longer any flame wars. We could still sit and discuss the contributions that Atheism has given to society.
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Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

jayt

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1246 on: September 07, 2009, 01:41:52 am »

I was brought up Anglican, until one day I just kinda realised, hey we totally made this shit up to explain everything we didn't understand.

Thats basically my spiritual journey.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1247 on: September 07, 2009, 01:46:57 am »

If I may ask, what is your current theologic bent? Did you remain Christian (whether or not constrained to a particular dogma), or did you start to lean towards an atheist or agnostic view?

It's always interesting to see how people react to these sort of things.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1248 on: September 07, 2009, 01:47:04 am »

Man, spiritual journeys sans the mind bending drugs are crap.

Anyway, I think most of the first couple chapters of the bible (chapters? Gensis, Exodus, ect) were made up by humans attempting to understand God. Evolution baby!
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Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1249 on: September 07, 2009, 01:55:16 am »

This has degenerated into nothing without any apparent purpose, with arguments on completely tangentially related things going on. The only people that seem to be on track are LegoLord and I.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1250 on: September 07, 2009, 01:56:41 am »

Degenerated? Have you been following this thread? It's almost always been like this, occasionally jumping back to the original topic.
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Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1251 on: September 07, 2009, 02:33:09 am »

Okay, let me rephrase that. This thread deviated from the original intent of the thread at about post 2.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1252 on: September 07, 2009, 02:46:24 am »

True. Keep trying though, I'm sure you'll eventually have a worthwhile conversation.
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1253 on: September 07, 2009, 06:26:40 am »

The biggest reason I hate all these arguments is the point of proof and traits of worship.  I can't understand how someone can believe in something that they have not had definite proof that it exists.  It throws me for a loop.  It's like saying that there is a device on Earth right now that can produce invisible gold out of thin air, but the device is invisible and if you believe hard enough, you'll get some of this invisible gold.

I don't believe anything exists until It's proven.  Period.  If "God" wanted me to praise and worship it, it would prove it's existence to me (and being omnipotent, it will know exactly how without a shadow of a doubt.  Not like some passe argument or battle of wits a la Bruce Almighty.)  But for the sake of the argument that "God" wants you to believe out of your own free will or be punished in some way, then I call this god a child in which I wouldn't want to follow anyway.  So let's change it to say that "God" doesn't care that you worship it... then why waste your precious time here on Earth worshiping that which cares not?

Idolizing a being is an old and antiquated structure of a noble and common (or slave and owner) relationship.  Believing that some person/thing can be more privileged than yourself and altering your life in some way.  It is akin to self deprecation.  You've decided you are worthless, can't think for yourself and accept ignorance ("God did it") over evidence.  You've decided that knowing the answers just isn't important or worth waiting for.  I might even argue it's egotistical (or arrogant) to think that you know what "God" is or that your idea of what happened is "THE" answer to it all and everyone else is pathetic or ignorant.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1254 on: September 07, 2009, 06:49:42 am »

The biggest reason I hate all these arguments is the point of proof and traits of worship.  I can't understand how someone can believe in something that they have not had definite proof that it exists.  It throws me for a loop.  It's like saying that there is a device on Earth right now that can produce invisible gold out of thin air, but the device is invisible and if you believe hard enough, you'll get some of this invisible gold.

I don't believe anything exists until It's proven.  Period.  If "God" wanted me to praise and worship it, it would prove it's existence to me (and being omnipotent, it will know exactly how without a shadow of a doubt.  Not like some passe argument or battle of wits a la Bruce Almighty.)  But for the sake of the argument that "God" wants you to believe out of your own free will or be punished in some way, then I call this god a child in which I wouldn't want to follow anyway.  So let's change it to say that "God" doesn't care that you worship it... then why waste your precious time here on Earth worshiping that which cares not?

Idolizing a being is an old and antiquated structure of a noble and common (or slave and owner) relationship.  Believing that some person/thing can be more privileged than yourself and altering your life in some way.  It is akin to self deprecation.  You've decided you are worthless, can't think for yourself and accept ignorance ("God did it") over evidence.  You've decided that knowing the answers just isn't important or worth waiting for.  I might even argue it's egotistical (or arrogant) to think that you know what "God" is or that your idea of what happened is "THE" answer to it all and everyone else is pathetic or ignorant.

You have some good points and I don't want to get into an argument, really (it pains me to post even this after promising I'd quit) so someone else can refute them if they wish. I've highlighted the part I wanted to address. Certainly we believe that God is THE answer to it all (not that I'm not open to other interpretations), but very few people (people I don't like, too) think that believing different is pathetic or ignorant.

I have known some people to make arguments like that. i.e. group X knows group Y (be it Christian, Atheism or other) believe Z (Jesus existed, evolution happened, it was Allah). Therefore group Y are all idiots (because what they believe in conflicts with what X believes in, because it's illogical, and so on).

The above argument, whilst not exactly what you said, is a very, very stupid one, made by very, very stupid people that do not in any way represent the majority of any one group. Most Christians do not believe that others believing other things are stupid an ignorant. I believe that all religions are a path to God (and atheism doesn't disqualify you should you do good in life), as do many people. Don't make the mistake of generalizing something like that. We aren't like that, you aren't like that, most of the sane (makin' IWM happy, doot doo dee doo) world is not like that.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 07:11:40 am by Jackrabbit »
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jayt

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1255 on: September 07, 2009, 07:03:24 am »

If I may ask, what is your current theologic bent? Did you remain Christian (whether or not constrained to a particular dogma), or did you start to lean towards an atheist or agnostic view?

It's always interesting to see how people react to these sort of things.
Atheism.  While I was still forced to go to church years ago by my school I considered myself to be more of a deist, with just a general dislike for organised religion.
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1256 on: September 07, 2009, 07:03:36 am »

Quote
most of the sane world

I am offended that you imply that my world is not sane.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1257 on: September 07, 2009, 07:04:42 am »

Quote
most of the sane world

I am offended that you imply that my world is not sane.

Alright, most of the world. Sane was also a generalization.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1258 on: September 07, 2009, 07:53:33 am »

Atheism.  While I was still forced to go to church years ago by my school I considered myself to be more of a deist, with just a general dislike for organised religion.

Fair enough. It's interesting, but the religious to athiest shift is by far the most common religious epiphany I've encountered (whether in person or online). Aside from that, I've seen one shift between dogmas (Catholic -> Anglican, though that was more of a gradual thing), and several people changing to a vague deism as opposed to any organised faith, but noone going in the opposite direction. In many of the cases, it was a dissatisfaction with the actual religion itself as opposed to the belief that started them thinking about their beliefs.

Wonder what the actual stats on the topic are...
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #1259 on: September 07, 2009, 07:56:21 am »

I doubt many people go from Atheist to Christian. Religion never worries me too much, whereas for most Atheists (or at least, those I've encountered) they're very vocal in their belief and seem to focus on it a fair bit. If you're like the Atheists I've met, you really believe in your ideals, very strongly and probably won't change them. From what I've seen.
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