Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Muz]

It's a bit extreme to say that atheists cure AIDS (or don't) and monotheists only look to destroy the world. o_O You could flip that around and say that some atheists created the atomic bomb and some other monotheists discovered some cures for cancer.

Not to all of you of course. Just the ones who were concluding that earlier.

[Neonivek]

It's a bit extreme to say that atheists cure AIDS (or don't) and monotheists only look to destroy the world. o_O You could flip that around and say that some atheists created the atomic bomb and some other monotheists discovered some cures for cancer.

Not to all of you of course. Just the ones who were concluding that earlier.

Is this seriously what people are comming to the conclusion to?

The only arguement I ever heard by a Religious person against curing aids wasn't that. He simply believed that AIDs has had very little chance of ever being cured and is effectively a money sink when more hands on approach could eliminate Aids anyhow. Which is a Non-religion based arguement.

Most Athiests arn't Religiously Athiest so you can't say they are doing anything as they arn't doing anything according to the mandate of being Athiest. A lot of Religious people are the same.

Though seeing as people are now going down the road of "Science and Religion are Opposed" I guess we are starting to go down all the steriotypes. It is really disheartening that I don't have the time or drive to give this topic the care it needs. At least we got beyond the "Religion as a reason or an excuse" aspect. But now we have "Religion as socially irresponsible", "Religion as a hinderance to advancement", "Religion as opposition to Science", "Atheism as true progress", and a bunch of other stuff.

Though it could be worse, I havn't heard anything about the Church's stance on Condoms.
Ps. Don't bother to even comment on it... Chances are if you think the Church is stupid because of it... You have no freeken idea what your talking about. Though don't feel bad, even John Stewert didn't.
-If you DO comment please PLEASE know what your talking about as in you actually researched into it. I don't mind if you disagree while understanding the stance. I am annoyed if you disagree on the basis of how you think you understand it.

[Earthquake Damage]

Ps. Don't bother to even comment on it... Chances are if you think the Church is stupid because of it... You have no freeken idea what your talking about. Though don't feel bad, even John Stewert didn't.
-If you DO comment please PLEASE know what your talking about as in you actually researched into it. I don't mind if you disagree while understanding the stance. I am annoyed if you disagree on the basis of how you think you understand it.

If you're going to bring up a subject then drop this bomb, it would be polite to post a useful link (or, you know, explain it yourself).

[Neonivek]

If you're going to bring up a subject then drop this bomb, it would be polite to post a useful link

I just wanted to include something I always hear but never hear done justice. I was more of a example then something I wanted to tempt people into looking up.

Anyhow I can't link anything to it anyhow because I learned it through footwork.

Anyhow it is more boring then it seems mostly it is based around a few principle tenants not all of which I can come up with on the spot.

1) Condoms arn't perfect defenses against HIV even in perfect conditions. In imperfect the protection can become less then 50%.
2) Giving people Condoms for the intent that they will do so is asking them to have sex (or something like that)
-This one I find odd. If someone is going to have Sex outside of marriage why the heck do they think a Condom is what is going to make things any worse? So why do people seem to have this idea that people are refraining to use a condom on those grounds? I really gotta look up this info
3) Teaching Chasity and Abstenence are better solutons (Which they can site a source where this was successful in curb stomping aids that I never looked into)

Frankly I don't even know if the Church is correct but I do know that giving Africa Condoms with some sort of idea that they would even slow AIDs down seems rediculous to me. (If it did slow it down I'd be surprised).

What is it called when someone starts solving a problem in such a way that solves nothing but makes everyone believe the problem is being solved? It isn't Bandaid because that is giving a short term solution without dealing with the real problem.

[Maric]

As long as religion is not in schools and if it is then its not mandatory then I am fine with people believing it.  I dislike religion but as long as they don't force it on me, don't talk to me about it or affect my life at that moment in any way shape or form then I could careless in what they believe. 

[LegoLord]

You know, all the arguments I hear that try to debunk religion or atheism just sound irrationally hateful to me, driven and generated only by and because of the hate; the only arguments that sound reasonable to me (regardless of emotion behind them) are the ones by people who are indifferent to the philosophies of others.

As for science opposing religion, less than a century ago it was not uncommon at all to come across a religious scientist; their religion most likely had nothing to do with their ambitions as a scientist.  Any opposition between religion and science that you may see is entirely within your own head.

[Maric]

I know where a bit of my hate comes from  .

I don't mean this personally to anyone and my opinion doesn't affect my entire view of a person only one thing, but I can't stand people who blindly believe in something that has no shred of evidence. 

I was going to post an example but there are no words to express the feeling I get every time I find someone is fanatically religious.

[Idiom]

I was going to post an example but there are no words to express the feeling I get every time I find someone is fanatically religious.

Same. Also when I encounter someone fanatically anti-religious.

oppressive and demented

I hereby red flag you as hopelessly aggressive towards anything of religious affiliation, but I'll try to explain this to you in baby steps from the beginning, and for the benefit of others. Ready?

There are many kinds of people. You are one. You don't need the "training wheels" we've discussed. Many people were either born knowing or came to realize that they are the kind of person that can do without. Not everyone can do without, however. Are you really telling me that everyone you've ever met actually "grew up"? I know many of these people that instinctively stuff their heads under a pillow to get away from reality when left to their own devices. These people really do exist. I'm not kidding you. When you take away the pillow and force reality on them, they break. I've seen it before. It's not pretty. I'm kind of happy for those people that can stay happy by stuffing their heads under a rock because they can be happy. I'm kind of happy for anyone that can be happy by trying not to stuff their head under a rock because they too can achieve happiness. I am not happy for anyone who tries to ruin that for either.

The people have a natural impulse to share their revelation with all of those around them, whether aggressively or passively. That I do not find a good idea. You disrupt the people that are of the other kind. It is destructive, inconsiderate, selfish, rude, and pointless. Mostly, it's pointless because when left to their own devices the kind of people you are trying to create by sharing your revelation are more than capable of coming to it themselves. You need not take any action at all really. They find it themselves.

As both of these peoples go through their lives, yes, I do agree with you that science makes it nicer. I'm not arguing with that. Every time you say that religion makes people die at the age of 30 and makes for a shitty life and uneducated people, that is religion used incorrectly. I'm not pushing for that sort of extremeness. Religion is a cushion to be used by those that want it for life's destination. As I said before, if anyone is intentionally making their lives shorter or miserable in the name of religion, they probably should be dying off quicker anyway. Both are to make life nicer. Same goal. There only real incompatibility is in your head. It really is.

Science and religion have co-existed since cavemen made fire. They don't oppose each other unless directed by people like LeafSnail. Islam did, as posted before, fully encourage science and much classic science wouldn't have flourished without Islam. Monks have saved countless documents of scientific knowledge, studied and replicated them, during times of turmoil such as the dark ages. Has religion ever opposed science? Yes it has. That I won't argue with. However, do realize that was only when run by extremists. List any examples you like, they'll all come from the all-controlling Catholic church or small-scale nutcases/cults. I don't support religion that opposes science to actually impede it (though this does depend on the morality involved in the science.)

You see a few scratches and rust spots and discard the whole wrench. That is very primitive. Ever hear "science is a tool"? Same thing for religion. You look at things like the old Catholic church or Scientology, and please go ahead and oppose that. The tool is being used incorrectly. However, do recognize that what you find distasteful is the usage, not the tool itself.

So what do I want you to do?
1) sssssSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH! Leave people to find what fits.
2) Learn to respect. Not all that glitters is gold, but not all with imperfections is worthless. If you're not a moderate, you're not doing it right.

[Toady One]

All right, fine.  Warning PMs forthcoming.

[Grek]

All in favor of returning to the laserbeams and glow in the dark mice derail, say Aye.

Aye.

[Andir]

All right, fine.  Warning PMs forthcoming.

We are providing important research and information for the major religious(and anti-religious) dwaren battles that will ensue when you get the army arcs nailed down...  Come on now, you know you want to have two dwarfs on opposing walls screaming insults at each other.

[LegoLord]

But I don't think he wants humans doing that on his forum.

[Jackrabbit]

All right, fine.  Warning PMs forthcoming.

We are providing important research and information for the major religious(and anti-religious) dwarven battles that will ensue when you get the army arcs nailed down...  Come on now, you know you want to have two dwarfs on opposing walls screaming insults at each other.

When that happens, we can praise Armok that the posters in this thread did not have crossbows.

[omgdandelions]

Dudes, isn't it all subjective and stuff? My god is your god is nobodys god and thats cool because deep down everyones interpretation of everything is different, so every religion only has one follower and there are infinite shifting religions.

[Muz]

I sort of liked where the thread was headed a few pages ago. It's sort of gone back to grabbing one bad religious/atheist person, taking one bad thing that religious/atheist person did, and going way out of proportion with it. And then attacking that thing that doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Heh, one interesting thing I am getting from this thread is that the arguments seem to be fairly symmetrical. There's one side arguing that religion is oppressive, the other argues that atheism is aggressive. Both claim that the other is stupid or fanatic. And nobody really seems to listen to what the other says, just finding one imperfect sentence in the other's arguments and attacking that.

I would just love to swap everyone's places for a moment. Perhaps a religion mod would be interesting.