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[Jackrabbit]

Ah, I didn't read that bit. Then yeah, that does make sense.

[Siquo]

"Hey, how are you"
"..."
"HOW DARE YOU NOT ANSWER ME POLITELY *BANGBANG*"

LaVey just called it satanism to appeal to the establishment-hating adolescents who are looking for black-and-white solutions, and succeeded in that. (IMHO)

Perhaps I'm missing somthing, but being an atheist is not like being gay.

I'm getting the impression that in a lot of places in the US, it's even worse than that. People who are afraid to proclaim their lack of faith in a God, out of fear of being ostracised by their community. In that kind of light, I can understand the militant behaviour of some atheists (like Dawkins), they feel they have to fight for their right to party not believe in a God.

[Shade-o]

Perhaps more moderate Satanists destroy their enemies emotionally? The barrage of insults, insinuations, revelations and photographic evidence would be breathtaking to witness (though not as the receiver).

[Jackrabbit]

Hey, let's all convert to Satanism! That would be an absolutely hilarious way for the thread to end.

Also, yeah, it's like gay rights or feminists. People can go over the top and get extreme and those over the top and extreme people are loud and if you're stupid, you might assume everyone in their denomination is like that.

I don't know anything about Dawkins but man, fuck extremists.

[Shade-o]

This thread has been an opportunity to learn!

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I still say it isn't the same. Gay people are gay by nature, atheists are atheists by choice.

[Jackrabbit]

Whether or not it's the same, extremists are the same the world over and they just give every and any denomination a bad name if it's not common knowledge what the denomination's actually about.

[ECrownofFire]

I'm not really sure where I got that either, but most Atheists I know in real life say that there's no point in religion if god(s) and such don't exist. The general sense that I get from my friends is that "religion is false, so why bother with it at all?". And control has no question at all, but you can control people with almost anything. Religion in that case isn't really religion at all though.

Well I can understand your friends saying that. If you can answer the question then that should be enough for you, as long as you don't blindly follow and you question that should be enough for your friends.

Out of interest; you said you believed in reincarnation but do you believe that to be chronological or not? So each life has to follow the others in some way, or that each could be at any point in a timeline? Slightly off topic I realise but of interest to me.

Oh boy, reincarnation, kind of central to my beliefs. Yes, I believe in a chronological order, I'm not even sure how that would work if it wasn't. Chronological order is rather necessary as well. Sort of like Buddhism, I believe that you "learn your lesson" with time, except without the whole Nirvana concept. Once you manage to learn all there is to know, you're just booted out of the cycle and become a free wandering spirit or something I guess, or maybe you just keep going. It's not really important to me, the point is, reincarnation lets you learn. Plus, there's kind of a reason why it's called a PAST life, can't really have a "past" life in the future, now can you? Time itself is kind of a strange concept anyway. How exactly is time defined between universes (if there are any)? I don't pretend to know the answer to that one. Actually, would time even matter between universes? I don't think it would, because as long as you stay within chronological order in a specific universe, it shouldn't matter.

I'm not even sure that there are multiple universes, but science seems to say that there are, so that's what I'm going with. I tend to go with science for a lot of things, actually. I believe that the universe was created, somehow, and that life was started, and just let go. Whether that was through something like the Big Bang or not, I don't know, it's unimportant to my beliefs.

This thread has been an opportunity to learn!

I believe the entire POINT of religion is to learn, so yeah, I kind of expected that

I still say it isn't the same. Gay people are gay by nature, atheists are atheists by choice.

For my beliefs, that's not entirely true... I didn't exactly "choose" to believe what I believe, heh.

[Siquo]

fuck extremists.

Amen, brother.
Or
Hell yeah!

Whichever you prefer

[Jackrabbit]

Were you forced into your beliefs? Because even if you were born into a family that believes what you believe, as long as the option of changing religions or dropping them entirely exists, you've chosen to follow what you do.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's all a rather grey area when it comes to being "choice", now that I think about it. I mean, I could try to be a member of a religion, but the idea that it's all lies would linger in my mind still. I'd imagine that would fade after a few years of denial, what with Becoming The Mask and all.

Now, being forced into the whole thing as a child is a different situation entirely.

[Jackrabbit]

Well yeah, you couldn't choose to follow another religion, because you believe what you believe. But you chose to believe that, because it makes sense to you. I think it's a choice, not a biological thing or whatever makes someone LGBT.

[Siquo]

I still say it isn't the same. Gay people are gay by nature, atheists are atheists by choice.

I can choose to be gay. Reluctantly. Think... Little Britain.

Asynchronous and non-chronological re-incarnation is way cooler, as it allows for something I like to believe: we're all the same person, just in a different incarnation. And you don't have to deal with the mess of "where do new souls come from" and "how many are there at any one time".

[Shades]

atheists are atheists by choice.

Technically theists are theists by choice, newborns are not religious (which is why religions have to indoctrinate). I guess there should be more detailed studies into that, but finding situations you can test that is hard and manufacturing them would be wrong, so we can only go by what people have learnt so far.

Were you forced into your beliefs? Because even if you were born into a family that believes what you believe, as long as the option of changing religions or dropping them entirely exists, you've chosen to follow what you do.

when dropping your religion 'belief' means you get isolated from friends, family and everyone you care about it can be very hard to choose.

[ECrownofFire]

Were you forced into your beliefs? Because even if you were born into a family that believes what you believe, as long as the option of changing religions or dropping them entirely exists, you've chosen to follow what you do.

It's more complicated than that. My family has nothing to do with my beliefs. They're Christian. My parents and grandparents were even Jehovah's Witnesses. They aren't anymore (they stopped before I was born), except for my dad's parents, I think. It's not really my religion though. The religion is my choice, it's my beliefs that are sort of... not. If that makes any sense.

Really though, do you ever have a choice in religion? I could choose to go be a Hindu right now, but it's not really my choice. I couldn't choose to believe it. The religion I have I not only choose to believe in, but I am able to believe in it. I am unable to believe in Christianity, not because I don't choose to, but because I just don't agree with its views. I chose to believe in this religion because it makes sense to me, like Jackrabbit said. It really is part of who you are. Like your philosophy, it might be affected by your parents and upbringing, but for others, including myself, it's not affected as much. Something like your orientation is just part of your nature, but philosophy and beliefs are affected by nature and upbringing.