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[Bauglir]

If god exists, he's a huge dick. Like, totally huge. Such a colossal cocksucker.

Wait. Wait. Wait. So he sucks himself?

[Euld]

Well, yes.  Granted I'm not sure where they end up going from there, but either way, God creates and allows life to exist, he alone has the right how long a person is going to live.  A person doesn't suddenly gain immunity to God because they're below a certain age, or even if they're Christian.

Then I'll say it now - if this is nature of God, I will not believe in him.  Even if he appears to me specifically.  Sure, I'd aknowledge his existence, but no more.

Were you expecting God to give you immortality for believing in him or something?  I'm not saying God sends newborns to hell, personally I believe there's a cutoff in age where a child goes to heaven no matter what, but there's no reference in the Bible about that.  But then there's no reference about babies going to hell either.

And on the prayer thing: if anything, I'd say expecting God to automatically answer prayers before they're prayed is petty.  The whole point of Christianity is interaction with God, not gaining access to a cosmic vending machine.

"Please don't let my mother die of cancer, I need her support... I don't know what I'll do without her" (an unanswered prayer from my friend recently) is petty?

You're totally misunderstanding me.  Or I misunderstood you.  I'm talking about needs that people don't bother praying about, yet expect God to jump right in.  You're talking about needs people do pray about.  No your friend's prayer isn't petty.  God might allow your friend's mom to live, he might not.  Everyone is going to die someday.  Even the Lazarus who was brought back to life by Jesus would have died again later on in his life.

[The Doctor]

Yes. He is both the sucker and the suckee.

Why would a loving god send anyone to hell? Infinite torture* for finite transgressions is pretty evil.

*Not punishment, punishment is to teach you a lesson that you could use later. In hell, there is no later, it's just a bunch of endless torture.

[Leafsnail]

I expect God to use his unlimited power and all-seeingness or whatever to prevent some suffering, or intervene in some way.  At the very least, he could avoid randomly inflicting death on newborns.

There's no "might" about it.  It was unanswered.  And while all people die, the timing of it is critical.  God scythes people down completely at random (hey, kindof what you'd expect if there were no God at all).  He could at least try to minimize the pain someone feels when they pray to him.. but no, He did nothing at all (hey, kindof what you'd expect if there were no God at all).

As far as I can tell, the only thing God'll do for me is force me to worship him on pain of eternal torture (hey, that's another thing - I have "free will", but I'll get thrown into the lake of fire if I don't do exactly what he says?).

[KaguroDraven]

I expect God to use his unlimited power and all-seeingness or whatever to prevent some suffering, or intervene in some way.  At the very least, he could avoid randomly inflicting death on newborns.

There's no "might" about it.  It was unanswered.  And while all people die, the timing of it is critical.  God scythes people down completely at random (hey, kindof what you'd expect if there were no God at all).  He could at least try to minimize the pain someone feels when they pray to him.. but no, He did nothing at all (hey, kindof what you'd expect if there were no God at all).

As far as I can tell, the only thing God'll do for me is force me to worship him on pain of eternal torture (hey, that's another thing - I have "free will", but I'll get thrown into the lake of fire if I don't do exactly what he says?).

This is actuilly why I prefer older gods, like the Greek ones, they where complete and utter assholes, drunken violent inbreeding assholes. But they didn't claim they wheren't assholes. You got what you saw, the leader was a pig who had 1 kid with his wife and like 50 others with random women.

[Euld]

How should God kill people then?  In alphabetical order?  Should we get announcements by angels once a week to know who's going next?  Should there be free grief counseling by Jesus himself where he pats us on the head and assures that yes he loves us?  We Christians know that when God apparently does nothing, then either we can't see what he's up to, or he isn't going to change what's going to occur.  If we're about to endure something mindboggly difficult, then God's lack of action is a sign that he knows we can endure what's going to happen, and that what is going to happen has to happen.  God does minimize suffering and pain, but not to everyone and not all the time, it depends on the situation and what purpose that situation is going to serve.  Sometimes suffering is meant to strengthen, we don't build up a muscle by never stretching its limits.

And he's a just God too, not just a loving one:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+30:18&version=NIV

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
       he rises to show you compassion.
       For the LORD is a God of justice.
       Blessed are all who wait for him!

If you spend your life in sinful pleasures, ignoring and cursing God, why should you expect the same reward as someone who spent dedicated themselves to God and doing good?  It's like being an anarchist who is quite happy with his unemployment and food stamps.

[alway]

If we're about to endure something mindboggly difficult, then God's lack of action is a sign that he knows we can endure what's going to happen, and that what is going to happen has to happen.

The only reason that rationalization works is because anyone who doesn't ends up dead. "See? No one is telling you God didn't help keep them alive! He must have helped!"

[The Doctor]

Just because he says he is just, doesn't mean he is. From what I've seen... Well, he's a cocksucker.

[alway]

Just because he says he is just, doesn't mean he is. From what I've seen... Well, he's a cocksucker.

Yep. Then there's the whole bit about describing how to carry out (followed by the carrying out of) a genocide so complete it makes Rwanda pale in comparison. I remember asking about that as a kid, and getting the response that "well, they did it because otherwise group x would have made trouble for them forever more." As an uneducated 10 year old, this makes a lot of sense, until you read about the rationalizations of warlords behind modern day genocides. Which happen to be the exact same rationalization. The only difference is, there is a group of people worshipping one as a benevolent diety, while the other is being dragged off to the Hague to be put in prison for life.

[Leafsnail]

How should God kill people then?  In alphabetical order?  Should we get announcements by angels once a week to know who's going next?  Should there be free grief counseling by Jesus himself where he pats us on the head and assures that yes he loves us?  We Christians know that when God apparently does nothing, then either we can't see what he's up to, or he isn't going to change what's going to occur.

He could, say, not cut down close members of your family when you're already struggling to cope.  Or not kill people below a certain age.

And it's not really "when" he apparently does nothing, because, under that logic, he never does anything at all.  Unless you're gonna claim that all bad events aren't his fault, while all good ones are.

If we're about to endure something mindboggly difficult, then God's lack of action is a sign that he knows we can endure what's going to happen, and that what is going to happen has to happen.  God does minimize suffering and pain, but not to everyone and not all the time, it depends on the situation and what purpose that situation is going to serve.  Sometimes suffering is meant to strengthen, we don't build up a muscle by never stretching its limits.

I'm gonna say it now - not true.  Millions of people are caught in natural disasters, suffer, then die.  A good start to "minimizing pain and suffering" would be "stop natural disasters".

And he's a just God too, not just a loving one:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+30:18&version=NIV

Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
       he rises to show you compassion.
       For the LORD is a God of justice.
       Blessed are all who wait for him!

If you spend your life in sinful pleasures, ignoring and cursing God, why should you expect the same reward as someone who spent dedicated themselves to God and doing good?  It's like being an anarchist who is quite happy with his unemployment and food stamps.

"Ignoring"?  He's shown me no evidence of his existence, and even if he had, he's given me no reason to worship him.  Effectively, he'd be punishing people for questioning the dogma given to them (or, in some cases, for never having heard of said dogma before).

I don't even mind so much if those who believe get a "special reward".  It's the "throwing everyone who doesn't agree with him into hell for all eternity" that bothers me.

[KaguroDraven]

Once again, old gods win out here.
Good people got rewards.
Bad people punished.
Somewhere inbetween(like non-beleivers for christians) got something not really good, not really bad.

[Leafsnail]

Although that then means I have to randomly guess which God is correct.  And take into consideration the possibility of a God who wants me to be atheist.

[KaguroDraven]

What guessing? The old Pantheons all had their own 'circles' that they ruled over, only a few gods intermixed. Like Athena and Ares for the domain of war. The god who even had any kind of control, and that wasn't much, where you went was Hades, and while a jerk he was the closest thing that particular pantheon had to a 'nice guy'

[alway]

Not to mention, most of them don't have the exclusivity clause of more modern Western religions. You can probably even feel free to worship multiples in the same area of expertise.

From the logically flawed perspective of Pascal's Wager, that would actually be the best route to take. You don't rule out the exclusivity-clause gods, thus staying on the good sides of some of them (some have clauses of 'only those who opose our religion have nasties happen to them') while acquiring as high a number of non-exclusives as you can. Heck, you can even make up some more just in case they weren't previously thought of!

[Leafsnail]

What guessing? The old Pantheons all had their own 'circles' that they ruled over, only a few gods intermixed. Like Athena and Ares for the domain of war. The god who even had any kind of control, and that wasn't much, where you went was Hades, and while a jerk he was the closest thing that particular pantheon had to a 'nice guy'

I meant more as a general sortof thing (how am I meant to guess the Christian God was the correct view of the world?  I mean, if it were a mystery novel, I'd declare the solution unfair).