Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[KaguroDraven]

Well someone in that sci-fi link I posted put it best 'These humans worship a god who has slaughtered millions on his own, killed children, and wants them to go to war and kill other humans, and yet they consiter this god kind and benevilant'

Also about the prayer thing the song 'dead' by Voltaire basicly says that word for word at the end 'god already knows what you want, and decided you didn't need it, so don't bother asking for cures or an answer, god is the one who gave you the cancer'

[Euld]

I mean, if God isn't omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

Here is a better question: if God is omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

The Bible actually does make a note of this.  I can't seem to find the verse though :/  It goes something like 'God already knows your prayers before you pray.'  The importance of prayer is that God may not help you unless you actually ask for his help with something.  Yes he knows you want that something, but if you can't even be bothered to ask for it, why should God give it to you?  We Christians also define prayer pretty loosely, you don't have to get down on your knees and put your hands together. 
Essentially, "talk" to God in your head, anywhere, doing anything, and that can be a prayer.  This also acts as a safeguard of sorts.  Let's say you want something you don't really need, so you pray for it, then God can tell you that you don't need it and possibly the reason why, and now you've gained a little more understanding of yourself and of God.

As for the Crusades... can we move on yet?

[Leafsnail]

So... he's basically extremely petty?

On the other hand, since he's no better at answering prayers than random chance, I think I'll pass.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

As for the Crusades... can we move on yet?

No, we can't. So the Pope said sorry for centuries of oppression and evil on the part of the Catholic Church? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't forgive them, mostly because they are still doing evil things. They can try again when they don't send missionaries out that tell people with little other connection to the world at large that condoms don't protect you from HIV in areas where HIV is rampant or when they stop protecting child molesting priests while denying the claims of said preist's victims. Untill then, I  will continue to consider the Catholic Church a stain on humanity.

[Jackrabbit]

I didn't realize they were doing that, that's not cool. Protests away!

[Muz]

Yay, I rerailed the thread.

A bad debate is when someone doesn't make any sense. Like my favorite nonsense argument from this thread is that God either exists or he doesn't. Thus there is a 50% chance of god existing. 50% would be rounded to 1, meaning that by default God does exist.

I don't think anyone has ever made this argument.  Partly because it seems to reach a pro-agnostic position then has an atheist conclusion?

You mean a theist conclusion. Lol, I'm sure I've seen it in this thread, but I sure won't go back and look for it.

Also, and I know someone will yell at me about this, going against your own religion in a hypocritical way happens all the freaking time. IE 'Lets kill all the musliems in the holy lands!' 'But the bible says not to kill' 'Who cares? They are heathens! CRUSADE!'

Not really... organized religion has a great way of twisting around 'logic'. The bible says not to kill.... but not to kill because ___ (it makes us look bad, life is sacred, they may kill us back, etc). Then they just take one of these reasons and twist it around. So if they concluded that you can't kill because life is sacred, they find a way of justifying that heathen lives are not sacred.

Or like with modern muslim terrorist attacks, they twisted around word where the qurans says that you are required to fight in defense. A good offense is the best defense. Thus, a good offense is mandatory.

All abuses of logic, but the common religious follower is afraid of questioning a religious authority.

I mean, if God isn't omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

Here is a better question: if God is omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

I suppose it's pretty much a way to cash in on the brownie points you have. The more good things you do, the more prayers are answered. Or it's just to make you feel a lot better, which is a major reason why people get into religion in the first place. Nobody wants to worship a God who won't help them. Very pious people are either scared of God or believe that he's going to help them when they're in trouble later.

Well someone in that sci-fi link I posted put it best 'These humans worship a god who has slaughtered millions on his own, killed children, and wants them to go to war and kill other humans, and yet they consiter this god kind and benevilant'

The idea is that the highest moral lies in the afterlife, not in life. So death, etc, is not an evil, unless it is done in murder. Something about only God having the right to take away life, and that humans don't have the ability to judge whose life is worth taking.

[Leafsnail]

A bad debate is when someone doesn't make any sense. Like my favorite nonsense argument from this thread is that God either exists or he doesn't. Thus there is a 50% chance of god existing. 50% would be rounded to 1, meaning that by default God does exist.

I don't think anyone has ever made this argument.  Partly because it seems to reach a pro-agnostic position then has an atheist conclusion?

You mean a theist conclusion. Lol, I'm sure I've seen it in this thread, but I sure won't go back and look for it.

An argument which concludes with "God doesn't exist" is theist?

The idea is that the highest moral lies in the afterlife, not in life. So death, etc, is not an evil, unless it is done in murder. Something about only God having the right to take away life, and that humans don't have the ability to judge whose life is worth taking.

So the lives of day-old babies are worth taking, for instance?

[Euld]

The idea is that the highest moral lies in the afterlife, not in life. So death, etc, is not an evil, unless it is done in murder. Something about only God having the right to take away life, and that humans don't have the ability to judge whose life is worth taking.

So the lives of day-old babies are worth taking, for instance?

Well, yes.  Granted I'm not sure where they end up going from there, but either way, God creates and allows life to exist, he alone has the right how long a person is going to live.  A person doesn't suddenly gain immunity to God because they're below a certain age, or even if they're Christian.

And on the Crusades thing: that's a pretty good point actually, MetalSlimeHunt.  Does that mean people can stop bothering non-Catholics about it yet? :/

And on the prayer thing: if anything, I'd say expecting God to automatically answer prayers before they're prayed is petty.  The whole point of Christianity is interaction with God, not gaining access to a cosmic vending machine.

[Sergius]

I mean, if God isn't omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

Here is a better question: if God is omniscient, what's the use of prayer?

An even better question: What's the use of prayer?

[Leafsnail]

Well, yes.  Granted I'm not sure where they end up going from there, but either way, God creates and allows life to exist, he alone has the right how long a person is going to live.  A person doesn't suddenly gain immunity to God because they're below a certain age, or even if they're Christian.

Then I'll say it now - if this is nature of God, I will not believe in him.  Even if he appears to me specifically.  Sure, I'd aknowledge his existence, but no more.

And on the prayer thing: if anything, I'd say expecting God to automatically answer prayers before they're prayed is petty.  The whole point of Christianity is interaction with God, not gaining access to a cosmic vending machine.

"Please don't let my mother die of cancer, I need her support... I don't know what I'll do without her" (an unanswered prayer from my friend recently) is petty?

[Realmfighter]

To God, i would imagine.

[Leafsnail]

If God thinks something like that is petty, then

I will not believe in him.  Even if he appears to me specifically.

Really, this kind of God strikes me as little more than a bully ("Worship me!  I won't do anything to help you, but if you don't, I'll burn you forever!").

[Realmfighter]

If there is a God, i think he wouldn't give a shit about us.

Why would he?

[Il Palazzo]

God works in mysterious ways...
You people of small faith.

I'm totally trolling now.

[The Doctor]

If god exists, he's a huge dick. Like, totally huge. Such a colossal cocksucker.