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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 408845 times)

Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4860 on: October 07, 2010, 06:43:18 am »

Here's hoping everyone else forgives me[1] the temporary derail...

Also, you worked in Germany? I love the look of Germany, the history behind Germany, I am going to Germany and will also be spending time as an exchange student in Germany.

What's it like?
I can only really talk about Berlin and the surrounds.  I arrived there with a phrasebook and a promise by my boss (back home) that the taxi drivers would speak English.  The driver I got was a Russian immigrant with less German than I could understand, though I at least got onto the correct Strasse (even if I did have to walk half way along it to find the destination).

Berlin was still in the midst of a post-wall building boom (was celebrating 10 Jahr of said, at one point) which meant some shiny, shiny architecture, along Der Mauer(sp?).  It might have settled down a bit now.  And I intellectually liked the contrast between formerly Western and Eastern segments.  My own accommodation in Westend was a pretty basic Fahrgest place, at least to my eyes (never having lived in a flat, except as a student), but was at least externally far less utilitarian than some of the East.

For quite a while, I avoided the U-Bahn and S-Bahn (Underground and Surface rapid-transit trains, although there are overground bits of some U-Bahn lines and vice-versa), and walked almost everywhere, but eventually I got myself a month's pass and went further afield as far as the system would take me.  Plus some trips with colleagues/relatives to the surrounding area (e.g. Sans Souci).  On the U/S-Bahn, I only once got checked for having a valid ticket (and, at that time, at least, there were no ticket barriers) and that was in the Eastern area of the city famous for its Schwarzrad ('black-travellers', the ticketless).  I've heard they may have gone for barriers, since.  Still, I got a lot a value out of the ticket anyway, and doubtless I could have done something similar with a DeutschBahn (IIRC the name) ticket for the whole country, if I'd have had more time to myself to spend it with.

Loads more i could say about the city, but I'll move onto the people.  As "Turkey's second largest city", Berlin is an immigrant magnet as much as any capital city is.  But unless I never went into the 'wrong' areas (or did so with the innocence of a Twoflower), I never felt threatened.  I once walked from the through the Brandenburg Gate (then, as most of the time I was there, shrouded with scaffolding for repairs) from the tourist(-and-bear[2])-busy Unter-Den-Linden which heretofore inexplicably had spouted a few more policemen and police vehicles (including a water-cannon one) dotted down the side-streets, and found myself in the midst of a 'demonstration' about some Israeli incident against Palestinians.  One of the major incidents of the time, but now a little lost in more recent history.  It was mainly families of middle-eastern origin, and once I worked out what was going on I did not feel threatened one bit (although they started to break up and head towards their own chosen departure routes just as I reached their edge and headed down to the Potsdammer Platz station, which I admit I could have planned better! :) ).  As a comparison, the following year I was coincidentally in London at the time of the May Day whatever-it-was-against-but-probably-Capitalism Parade (it was long before Countryside Alliance stuff, and Stop(/Don't Start) The War) and I didn't get with 50 yards of the cordoned off route before being honestly frightened off from my intended destination and going off and being a "non-tourist-looking tourist" elsewhere in the city for that day.

And of course the local locals are friendly enough.  (Lestwise those that I encountered, obviously, and most of my colleagues were French...  Their language being one I hadn't practically used for ten years before that, so about on par with my proficiency in German, being learnt as I went along!)  At one early point, one rainy Sunday morning I was wandering around a random bit of the city and a reporter with a camera crew pounced on me (being the only person in sight, at that time) and asked me something about...  well, I never did find out (may have been something about a by-pass, but probably wasn't).  I was quickly subjected to an "Entschuldigung!" apology and left alone once my faltering linguistic skills became obvious.  I may, indeed, have accidentally proclaimed myself to be a Hungarian Chauffeur, if my later reminiscences over the incident were more accurate than my on-the-spot babbling obviously had been.  Still, I later on got quite good at directing people around the city, though doubt I could get straight back into it.

Actually, don't know why I'm telling you the above, as if you're going in as an exchange student, you're almost certainly far more proficient with the lingo now than I ever got to be.


What else...  The climate?  It's a continental climate, at least where I was, which makes it pretty predictable.  I've seen the full gamut of snow and sun, hail and high winds, mist and mizzle.  But was rarely surprised by the turn turn of events, it was telegraphed pretty much by the sky and the season.  (Compared with the way the weather happens in the UK, certainly.)


Trouble is, I'm running out of time, and have been writing this for too long (shouldn't even be in this thread, but messing about getting it elsewhere seems pointless, now) while trying to deal with countless professional duties and now I need to dash out on an errand, and when I'm back I'll be on another machine, so I'll post this and you can make of it what you will.  I'm not sure if I'm being much help anyway.


Right... dashing now.



[1] Those that don't applaud it!

[2] "Berlin, Bearlin", I think it was called.  Along most of the length of the avenue some guy had been putting thousands upon thousands of garden-gnome sized plastic bears, in various colours, onto wooden trelliswork.  Representing the city's Wasn't finished by the time I left, but in all that time I saw just one bear gone missing from the structure, and thatlooked like it had been accidentally knocked off, not deliberately vandalised.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4861 on: October 07, 2010, 07:01:17 am »

It is a lot of help, it got me more excited.

My German is somewhere between nothing and zilch, currently. The exchange thing is planned to happen in a year, so I'll be taking classes for about a year before I get there. I'm looking forward to it.

Anyway, back to sentient rocks or whatever the hell.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4862 on: October 07, 2010, 07:07:24 am »

It is a lot of help, it got me more excited.

My German is somewhere between nothing and zilch, currently. The exchange thing is planned to happen in a year, so I'll be taking classes for about a year before I get there. I'm looking forward to it.

Anyway, back to sentient rocks or whatever the hell.
Nein means no and is pronounced "nine"

Ja means yes and is pronounced "Ya"


Ich means I and is pronounced "Ish"
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4863 on: October 07, 2010, 08:46:14 am »

Nein means no and is pronounced "nine"

Ja means yes and is pronounced "Ya"


Ich means I and is pronounced "Ish"
I tended to go for the more "Scottish Loch" pronunciation for "ch"-stuff.  But I was probably subtly wrong about that, anyway.  Or sounded more like a Bavarian Bumpkin/whatever. The thing I had 'always known' about German is that in a double-vowel situation, it's the second vowel that makes the difference, so "kleine" and "keine"[1] are pronounced with a long "i", as with both parts of Einstein, but "bier" is more or less as in English "beer"[2].  Also the "beta'-looking character is actually a stylised double-s ligature called (at least by me) an "ess-se".

[1] One of my first mix-ups was saying "Ich sprechen keine Deutsche" instead of "kleine".  But I wasn't far wrong, either way. :)

[2] Or alternately it's the English "beer" is funny.  Although the normal pronunciation of the word "be" followed by that of the suffix "-er" sounds good to me, as well.


(With apologies for errors of spelling and/or grammar that I've reintroduced.  Like I've said, I'm a bit rusty.  You don't want language lessons from me.)
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Leafsnail

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4864 on: October 07, 2010, 10:49:38 am »

My German is somewhere between nothing and zilch, currently. The exchange thing is planned to happen in a year, so I'll be taking classes for about a year before I get there. I'm looking forward to it.

Anyway, back to sentient rocks or whatever the hell.
If it makes you feel better, I found German pretty intuitive as a language.  It's fairly logical and similar to English as long as you stick to simple phrases.

Once you get into more complicated phrases you run into case and word order and stuff, but...

The pronunciation thing is right, generally you pronounce the second vowel ("Mein" = "Mine", "weil" = "vile", for instance).  The other thing I was taught right at the start was "The verb is always the second part of a sentence".  So it's "Ich spreche kleine Deutsch".  You can, on the other hand, invert the others to "Kleine Deutsch spreche ich" or whatever.
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4865 on: October 07, 2010, 11:10:55 am »

Ah, the "other thing I always knew" was about the verb being at the end of the sentence.  Which I now know not to be correct (or at least, was flexible enough to be far from mandatory).

The old joke is that an aged and learned professor at a German university conducted his (it turns out) final lecture with a sentence so complex and intertwined that when he left his entire class without any idea what he had been talking about, thanks to expiring just before the final verb.

But as German isn't one of the languages with completely rigid ordering of verb, subject and object (or because they're used to the misuse by us 'typische' Anglophones), as some languages are, it should work out well enough as long as you don't go overboard.

I put the ball in the bucket.
The ball in the bucket I put.
Ball, in the bucket, I put.
Bucket, in, the ball I put.
Put I in the bucket the ball.
Put ball bucket in I did.
...and so on, to increasingly idiotic lengths.

No.  Don't listen to me, I'm barely more than a monoglot.  But it seemed to work for me.

(If I don't get to say any more, before the original thread and/or cheese and/or ninjas reasserts itself, enjoy your Exchanginess thing.)
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alway

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4866 on: October 07, 2010, 11:32:31 am »

Put ball bucket in I did.
Heh, there is no way to imagine that being read by any voice other than Yoda.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4867 on: October 07, 2010, 12:00:08 pm »

The verb at the end isn't at all incorrect, really.  If it's in the past/ future tense, that verb goes to the end (there are a few other reason why too, I think).
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Lordinquisitor

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4868 on: October 07, 2010, 12:45:27 pm »

Oh, German is a very structured and easy language.. At least for me, but since i`m a german i think i might be a bit biased.

What should i give for advice? Hmm, well. German was heavily influenced by latin (Parts of the pronunciation, words, and even some grammar) and if you know some latin it might help to learn german.

If you have questions feel free to ask. But actually i have forgotten some rules and stuff and do everything right by intuition.

/Starver

Quote
[1] One of my first mix-ups was saying "Ich sprechen keine Deutsche" instead of "kleine".  But I wasn't far wrong, either way.

You mixed that up. Saying "Ich spreche kein Deutsch" is right, but saying "Ich spreche kleine Deutsch" would be wrong.  But maybe you meant "Ich spreche kaum Deutsch" which would also be right. ;)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 12:47:02 pm by Lordinquisitor »
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Flagrarus

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4869 on: October 07, 2010, 01:07:43 pm »

Oh, German is a very structured and easy language.. At least for me, but since i`m a german i think i might be a bit biased.
Maybe. I'm Dutch, so I can usually understand German as long as people don't talk too fast, but I can never remember whether a word is masculine, feminine or neuter. Or whether a preposition is followed by a Genitiv, Dativ or Akkusativ. English still seems a lot easier to me.
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I've had my name said wrong at least 10 times so far in my whole forum life.
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4870 on: October 07, 2010, 01:10:14 pm »

English is actuilly consitered one of the more complex languages, mainly becouse of all of the different rules and exceptions to rules in very specific cases.
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Haspen

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4871 on: October 07, 2010, 01:16:16 pm »

You lack gender differentation.

'You have done what!?' and it applies to both genders. In Polish, for example, the sentence would be different for both genders.

And accented letters.

And grammar cases. English have two, while Polish have seven, for example. It's about changing the end of the word, according to in what situation/context the word was used for.

English is easier.
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4872 on: October 07, 2010, 01:18:40 pm »

I don't know if I should be annoyed or happy right now. I don't know much about the polish part of my heritige, and now that you've told me this I really want to learn polish.....damn it!
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"Those who guard their back encounter death from the front." - Drow Proverb.
I will punch you in the soul if you do that again.
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Lordinquisitor

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4873 on: October 07, 2010, 01:20:03 pm »

Oh, German is a very structured and easy language.. At least for me, but since i`m a german i think i might be a bit biased.
Maybe. I'm Dutch, so I can usually understand German as long as people don't talk too fast, but I can never remember whether a word is masculine, feminine or neuter. Or whether a preposition is followed by a Genitiv, Dativ or Akkusativ. English still seems a lot easier to me.

This is actually pretty easy once you get the feel for it. If you want to determine the Kasus (Genitiv, Dativ etc..) you can ask yourself a simple question. Example:

"Er sieht ein Haus" (He sees an house.)

Now, if you want to determine the kasus of Haus you can ask:

"Wen oder was sieht er?" (He sees whom or what?)

And whenever you can ask "Wen oder was X?" (Whom or what X?) it`s akkusativ.

God, i`d be a bad german teacher.



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Flagrarus

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4874 on: October 07, 2010, 01:32:26 pm »

Oh, German is a very structured and easy language.. At least for me, but since i`m a german i think i might be a bit biased.
Maybe. I'm Dutch, so I can usually understand German as long as people don't talk too fast, but I can never remember whether a word is masculine, feminine or neuter. Or whether a preposition is followed by a Genitiv, Dativ or Akkusativ. English still seems a lot easier to me.
This is actually pretty easy once you get the feel for it. If you want to determine the Kasus (Genitiv, Dativ etc..) you can ask yourself a simple question. Example:
"Er sieht ein Haus" (He sees an house.)
Now, if you want to determine the kasus of Haus you can ask:
"Wen oder was sieht er?" (He sees whom or what?)
And whenever you can ask "Wen oder was X?" (Whom or what X?) it`s akkusativ.
God, i`d be a bad german teacher.

I can do that ( it's the same as in Latin. Or Greek, I suppose, because Latin also has Ablativus ), that's not really the problem. The problem is that I don't know whether "um" or "nach" or "seit" are followed by Dativ or Akkusativ. Or Genitiv. And I never know the plurals, either. :P

Whereas with English, the only thing you really have to remember about a word is the meaning.
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I've had my name said wrong at least 10 times so far in my whole forum life.
Oh, HORROR! This is clearly a travesty of untold proportions! The typo gods truly have brought their wrath down upon this poor man!
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