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[Siquo]

If you have an hour... you could hear Dan Dennett talk about belief, he explains this better than me.

I listened for about 20 minutes, and... well. The smugness is annoying. He quotes Ayaan Hirsi Ali, someone of whom I'm glad left the country, and generalises theists, they're all the same and all wrong. How can you even argue with someone like that? The whole attitude of religious US versus the atheists has rendered them militant, which is a shame.

@metalslime: They include agnostics in the numbers in that vid.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

@metalslime: They include agnostics in the numbers in that vid.

As before, I don't doubt the numbers, I doubt the notable people listed.

[Sergius]

so if you're done with your constant "think nothing! believe everything! y'all are stupid!" trolling...

Yep. 

I'll hold you to that.

[Micro102]

Well I'm sure some googling could rid you of some of your doubts.

[Jackrabbit]

so if you're done with your constant "think nothing! believe everything! y'all are stupid!" trolling...

Yep. 

I'll hold you to that.

Well, that lasted all of -3 minutes.

If you have an hour... you could hear Dan Dennett talk about belief, he explains this better than me.

I listened for about 20 minutes, and... well. The smugness is annoying. He quotes Ayaan Hirsi Ali, someone of whom I'm glad left the country, and generalises theists, they're all the same and all wrong. How can you even argue with someone like that? The whole attitude of religious US versus the atheists has rendered them militant, which is a shame.

@metalslime: They include agnostics in the numbers in that vid.

Maybe one day you'll look back and realize that everything you just said there exactly how you've been arguing as well. But I don't have much hope for that.

[Sergius]

I mean the number of notable people it claims to be atheists. I know at least some of the ones listed are atheists, but others make me think they might have just pulled any notable person who could be seen as being an atheist and put it in the video.

Well, the "notables" were probably lifted from a database site. There are some objections, it's possible they didn't fact check every single one. A lot of the scientist types probably are, I don't know if they'll convince religious people with titles like "founder of the skeptics" tho. From the celebrities, at least Marlon Brando is debatable, some of his cites are contradictory. Jodie Foster has stated publicly that she is an atheist, but loves doing all the motions and rites of religious holidays (I guess she finds them fun).

[Siquo]

Maybe one day you'll look back and realize that everything you just said there exactly how you've been arguing as well. But I don't have much hope for that.

Ah, but MY smugness is snug! Hugs for all around!

But i still don't get why just listing a number of atheists makes a point. I could list a number of notable people who do believe in (a) God, does that help anything?

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail, Sergius, you're both repetitive and not bringing something new.

I felt almost unable to continue after this.  And slightly sick.  Your viewpoint as it stands seems more dangerous than most forms of fundamentalist religion (since you could take on the features of any of them... and then randomly switch).

Incidentally, saying Jackrabbit is "trolling" when he's taking one of the least objectionable positions imaginable... not gonna fly.

Hmm... isn't using "agnostic" and "atheist" as two mutually exclusive terms slightly misleading?  I mean, since atheism is not believing in a god... agnostics don't really "believe" either (although their lack of belief is implicit rather than explicit, which is what someone who is an "atheist" in the normal sense of the word is).

Siquo - it was created SPECIFICALLY to defend atheists against claims that they are immoral and stupid.

Actually, come to think of it, Britain's new opposition leader is almost certainly atheist.  Hmm.

[Jackrabbit]

Claiming someone is trolling is just an inviting escape from responding. It doesn't matter where I stand, because Siquo's position is the most objectionable in the thread. It's the only reason the thread's still continuing.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

But i still don't get why just listing a number of atheists makes a point. I could list a number of notable people who do believe in (a) God, does that help anything?

Siquo - it was created SPECIFICALLY to defend atheists against claims that they are immoral and stupid.

Yeah, there's apparently this thing with certain Christians about being taught their whole lives that atheists are evil and worthless by nature, and that you need to "save" them. I've only encountered one or two in real life, but let me tell you, it gets old fast.

[Jackrabbit]

I don't like that, I don't like that at all. No matter how much you want to save someone, people need to make these sort of decisions on their own, because these decisions will in a very large way shape their lives and who they are. I don't care how much someone wants to save you, it's usually detrimental to their cause if they try. People don't like it, and fair enough too.

[Shade-o]

It's a standard way of making yourself feel better. What's more exciting, living an ordinary life of drudge and quiet piety, or heroically saving the souls of the damned from their own self-inflicted ignorance? It's escapism, I guess.

[Jackrabbit]

It's escapism that annoys other people and more often than not doesn't help your cause in the slightest.

[Shade-o]

Yes, but it doesn't matter what they think. You're on a roll, and they should be quiet and be saved.

[Sergius]

Yes, but it doesn't matter what they think. You're on a roll, and they should be quiet and be saved.

I guess it's true: Jesus saves. Everyone else takes full damage.