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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 404053 times)

Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4395 on: September 28, 2010, 06:14:53 am »

What the fuck? No.

Throw in some Pâté and then we're getting somewhere.
Pâté?!? STEAK!!!
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4396 on: September 28, 2010, 06:17:42 am »

Well clearly you are not a religious man.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4397 on: September 28, 2010, 06:21:03 am »

Fear my ATHEISM!
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Sheb

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4398 on: September 28, 2010, 06:45:02 am »

I really like the way th eonly guy to post something coherent in the last 20 pages was told to get off our cheese thread.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4399 on: September 28, 2010, 07:08:50 am »

I really like the way th eonly guy to post something coherent in the last 20 pages was told to get off our cheese thread.
Get off our cheese thread!
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4400 on: September 28, 2010, 07:17:56 am »

Don't berate the infidel, it'll never help the cause.

You need to gently persuade them to accept Cheeses into their life.
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Sheb

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4401 on: September 28, 2010, 07:25:15 am »

Hey, I am the Cheese prophet!
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4402 on: September 28, 2010, 08:01:04 am »

I am the cheese GOD! FEAR MY CHEESYNESS!
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4403 on: September 28, 2010, 09:06:02 am »

From my point of view, it's the best explanation for some of the weird paradoxes and oddities of things like quantum physics and black holes and the fabric of spacetime.

It's somewhat funny, but you state those things like they are proven facts.  Nobody has any proof that black holes exist... there is proof that gravity can affect light, but nobody has actually proven the existence of a super-massive gravity speck in space that seems to be able to swallow up everything around it and never "grow."

The "Fabric of Space Time"/Relativity is also mostly unproven (in reality and in my humble opinion.)  Sure, there's the GPS satellites time discrepancy thing... but even though they accept that gravity makes the clocks run slower and they assume that the speed of them makes them run faster... they overlook the idea that it simply could be that the clocks used in the satellites are less effected by electric fields and other external forces here on Earth.  (I mean, we pump pure energy waves into the atmosphere for television, radio, etc.  There's also a huge radioactive burning mass sitting about 8 light minutes from us that has been shown to interfere with electronics.)  So we come up with theories and equations that come closest to answering why, but IMHO, are still tainted by outside forces.  The more finite these equations try to be, the more influenced they seem to be and people will make wild claims trying to make one simple equation answer all.  It all feels like the "Church of E=MC2" to me.  People are so stuck trying to prove that it's right that they seem to be brushing things under the rug.  The same things happen in Quantum Physics.  There's still a great divide between Quantum- and Astro-physics and both sides have their priests.

Personally, I think the universe will prove to be a complicated beast... but only complicated because of all these intertwined "simple" forces.  I'd wager that without a part of space with no stars, dust, or electromagnetic radiation to fully test some of these theories they will remain best guesses.  I'd also wager that there is no such space.  I still don't buy that somehow we seem to have the same density of stars all around us so we must be near the epicenter of the big bang aftermath in some "super bubble universe" of space.  I'd also wager that if we were able to travel at massive speeds and headed for the edge of this space, we'd simply find more.  Galaxies we previously have not seen would start to appear as if you were driving through fog and seeing headlights appear.

I don't blame the scientists though.  There's some wonder in figuring out "Why" but we can only use that which we can measure.  Just like the flat Earth Theory, we can't see beyond the horizon so we speculate the rest.

(edit: also the cheese is getting old... and that's not making it better. :P)
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4404 on: September 28, 2010, 09:37:43 am »

they overlook the idea that it simply could be that the clocks used in the satellites are less effected by electric fields and other external forces here on Earth.
You're wrong about that, but a lot of people have that misconception as it's often skipped over in the explanations.

(Also, being in a gravity well makes things run slower, and so does speed.  GPS satellites are faster because of 'less gravity around', if you'll excuse the bad phrasing, but are slowed (less than they are speeded up) by their relative motion to us.  Well, that's also bad phrasing.)

Regarding the universe being a complicated beast of simple interwined forces, personally, I analogise understanding the universe to like beings living within a "Conway's Game Of Life' universe trying to understand their own existence.  We (as external viewers of the universe concerned) can see that there's a very simple method of operation, but any beings (necessarily vastly complex pixel-constructs upon the 'playing field') will have a very difficult time trying to analyse anything close enough to actually view the innermost workings.  (And, in fact, we would have difficulty actually identifying such sentient beings upon a GOL playing-field, because we would only see the detail, for all intents and purposes, and deliberately altering the world to 'visit a miracle' upon them would be nigh-on impossible to arrange, even if one knew what one wanted to do...)  They certainly couldn't derive the physical laws that mean that impure silicon is a semiconductor, or the microcode of the processor being used to determine the next step in their world, and certainly not the composition of the atmosphere of the creatures they have no inkling of that are looking on.


Ditto, I think our universe is a fully deterministic place running on a low-level simple formula, such that even the sought-after Theory Of Everything is a mere abstraction.  But I say nothing about any beings looking on upon our field-of play wondering at the every-changing pattern of dots, or even of anyone having created it (I'm more open to it being a natural and spontaneous result of How The Universe Works), especially as you're going to have to explain whether that level is itself a simulation being run at a level further out still, ad infinitum

Quote
(edit: also the cheese is getting old... and that's not making it better. :P)
Depends on the cheese.
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4405 on: September 28, 2010, 09:51:08 am »

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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Sergius

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4406 on: September 28, 2010, 09:55:05 am »

Then there's the atheist statement, which is "There is no God."

I believe the statement is in actuality, "I do not believe that there is a God." At least, that's how I always put it. Why? Because I don't want to say "There is no God", specifically because it is a claim of knowledge that I do not have. The statement, "I do not believe there is a God" is not a claim of knowledge, it is an objection to a claim of knowledge.

There are those that say "Processed Cheese is a fact" (without being able to bring any proof along), and there are those that say "Processed Cheese does not exist" (but not being able to prove a negative). Those that happily live their lives without a consideration of Processed Cheese are often lumped into the latter camp, even though they are not explicit Cheese Deniers.

All this has been said 250+ pages before, in different words.

In those different words, with regards to Processed Cheese I'm a non-considering implicit Aprocessist (who considers it completely unknowable whether Processed Cheese exists, ever!) and find the explicit Aprocessists and the devout Processists equally annoying.  I find there's no need for Processed Cheese in my life.

But that only applies to to the substitution of Processed Cheese.  When it comes to normal processed cheese, I have already admitted it is a guilty pleasure.

You take that back!

Bah, how can one discuss GodCheese in a logical manner when this thread is full of Fondue-mentalists.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 09:59:51 am by Sergius »
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alway

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4407 on: September 28, 2010, 09:58:43 am »

Also, on thread topic...

Anyone else see this?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-religion-survey-20100928,0,3225238.story
Yeah, that's been a more or less known factoid for years. After all, one can not thoroughly debunk something one knows nothing about.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4408 on: September 28, 2010, 10:08:47 am »

"I believe there is no god" would be an "Explicit strong" atheist, incidentally.  "Explicit weak" ("I do not believe there is a god") is actually far more common (even some you'd regard as super-strong atheists like Dawkins would actually go into this category).
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4409 on: September 28, 2010, 10:15:09 am »

*Smells smoke from incoming war of flames*

*Grabs can of gasoline*

I don't think there's a god. But even someone on my level of (joke)awesomeness(joke) dosen't know if god exists or not.

If he does he is a massive dick. (Not literally)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 10:17:30 am by Dwarf mc dwarf »
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