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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 404086 times)

Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4380 on: September 27, 2010, 11:58:33 pm »

There was a failed attempt at a troll I think you might have missed.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4381 on: September 28, 2010, 12:00:14 am »

No, I got it. I just thought that maybe you were reacting badly to what you didn't know was a joke and trying to troll him in response.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4382 on: September 28, 2010, 12:06:14 am »

No, I got it. I just thought that maybe you were reacting badly to what you didn't know was a joke and trying to troll him in response.
I knew what he meant. Even if he was making an insulting joke to atheists I wouldn't care because you have to take a joke in life (if you can't you're better off dead)
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eerr

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4383 on: September 28, 2010, 12:13:43 am »

I have a right dammit, a right to insult my own kind!
You know, like the black people. nigga!
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4384 on: September 28, 2010, 12:38:42 am »

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Kalasen

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4385 on: September 28, 2010, 03:55:23 am »

I read about ten pages, then skipped to the end. Just throwing my two cents in.

There's two things to debate really. Whether each side is possible, and whether each side is possible. And of course you have to define what statement you are putting forward.

So if no one objects, there's the theist side which states "There is a God." where God is defined in some way where the conditions of being God are "is absolutely benevolent", "can alter anything in the universe at will", and "knows absolutely everything about anything in the universe, except perhaps not the future."

Then there's the atheist statement, which is "There is no God."

To prove that God exists, you would have to find direct evidence that there is a single being that has those three conditions, with no other explanation. To prove that God does not exist... well, you can't. Unless you find logical fallacy within the conditions given. And there is quite a good debate on that, if you look into The Problem of Evil.

So the possibility of the existence of God hasn't been disproven (unless you take The Problem of Evil).
And the impossibility of "God does not exist" hasn't be proven (unless you have some verifiable evidence you're not sharing).


Which brings us to part two, probability. Now that one's a lot blurrier, but I do recommend looking into debate techniques. It's a pretty subjective thing, what you consider the probability of the existence or nonexistence to be. I think a lot of the mutual hate between the two sides has to do with thinking that the other side is saying "Your side is impossible", rather than "I think your side is improbable." I won't get into that so much, but suffice it to say that I think reasoning, statistics, and logic play a heavy role in there.

And as for myself, I'm pantheist. Which for me is functionally like atheism. But as for what I propose, it's that "There is a divine force holding the universe's laws together. It is as nonsentient as the force of gravity, but is undefined except in any given universe." Basically, it's a fancy way of saying the multiverse is one giant RNG, and the universe we generated with came with certain physics quirks like gravity and quantum entanglement. It isn't very provable. Or disprovable. Then there's the probability thing. From my point of view, it's the best explanation for some of the weird paradoxes and oddities of things like quantum physics and black holes and the fabric of spacetime. From another's view, it may seem perfectly stupid. I'm sure we could have a fascinating discussion. And/or one or the other of us says something that sways the whole probability thing one way or another, and one of us says "Well crud, I guess I'm with your idea now."

So yeah, happy debating, I think debate is good as long as people think when doing it. And staying civil is nice.
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My Roguelike project, Adventurer, can be found at code.google.com/p/adventurerroguelike and its blog can be found at adventurerroguelike.blogspot.com

Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4386 on: September 28, 2010, 04:15:22 am »

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with cheese at all!
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4387 on: September 28, 2010, 04:45:24 am »

Mascapone cheese+honey+toasted bread = YUM!
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4388 on: September 28, 2010, 04:49:22 am »

What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with cheese at all!

I thought it was a heavily coded diatribe describing the divide over processed cheese, personally.

I can only say that there is no proof that processed cheese does not exist, however much others might wish that to be so.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4389 on: September 28, 2010, 04:53:18 am »

Swiss cheese sucks. The only thing it has is holes. Oh, remind me not to buy any other swiss products, especially clothes.
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Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4390 on: September 28, 2010, 04:58:15 am »

Then there's the atheist statement, which is "There is no God."

I believe the statement is in actuality, "I do not believe that there is a God." At least, that's how I always put it. Why? Because I don't want to say "There is no God", specifically because it is a claim of knowledge that I do not have. The statement, "I do not believe there is a God" is not a claim of knowledge, it is an objection to a claim of knowledge.
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4391 on: September 28, 2010, 05:46:45 am »

Then there's the atheist statement, which is "There is no God."

I believe the statement is in actuality, "I do not believe that there is a God." At least, that's how I always put it. Why? Because I don't want to say "There is no God", specifically because it is a claim of knowledge that I do not have. The statement, "I do not believe there is a God" is not a claim of knowledge, it is an objection to a claim of knowledge.

There are those that say "Processed Cheese is a fact" (without being able to bring any proof along), and there are those that say "Processed Cheese does not exist" (but not being able to prove a negative). Those that happily live their lives without a consideration of Processed Cheese are often lumped into the latter camp, even though they are not explicit Cheese Deniers.

All this has been said 250+ pages before, in different words.

In those different words, with regards to Processed Cheese I'm a non-considering implicit Aprocessist (who considers it completely unknowable whether Processed Cheese exists, ever!) and find the explicit Aprocessists and the devout Processists equally annoying.  I find there's no need for Processed Cheese in my life.

But that only applies to to the substitution of Processed Cheese.  When it comes to normal processed cheese, I have already admitted it is a guilty pleasure.

This post probably does not deserve a reply.  Probably should not have been written.
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Sheb

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4392 on: September 28, 2010, 06:05:00 am »

I think everybody here, atheists or not, agree that Cheese>God, right?
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4393 on: September 28, 2010, 06:07:53 am »

What the fuck? No.

Throw in some Pâté and then we're getting somewhere.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #4394 on: September 28, 2010, 06:10:57 am »

There is no way we are seriously having this conversation. And yet, there it is.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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