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[RAM]

Wow, I was on the first page, I almost always miss the first page.

[Grakelin]

Well that's good, now that you have heard everything this thread has to offer, you can now leave it alone and not look at it anymore right? And thereby not adding more to the repetitiveness with your "everything is repeating but me saying this won't change it" every 3 pages...

Back to atheist backwards.

I just googled atheist backwards, "tsiehta", and found many amusing websites. Omg the conspiracy theories are flowing out my head.

So, are you trying to posit intellectual superiority by agreeing to what I just said before asking me to get out of the thread, or did you really forget that you disagreed in the first place because I responded to GuestJr thinking that something hadn't been said before?

This should've been taken 272 pages ago.

This thread is like real life.

No matter how clever you think something is, it has been said already. The only reason you haven't seen it is because it got lost in the 272 page thread.

It's actually just a series of people all joining in on opposite sides and debating the same thing with eachother that the last generation of forumites did. The only person who consistently posted in this thread from the beginning has been banned now, partly as a result of it.

It would be a legend if every active forum didn't have one like it.

[Siquo]

A few things were repeated, but dealt with differently. Answering the same question over and over again, but with different answers, still yields insight. Mostly it's new stuff though. And yes, I have read the entire thread.

[Micro102]

So, are you trying to posit intellectual superiority by agreeing to what I just said before asking me to get out of the thread, or did you really forget that you disagreed in the first place because I responded to GuestJr thinking that something hadn't been said before?

I deny what you say, but try to convince you form your point of view. This is a debate thread after all.

[RAM]

Can we at least all agree that "it just is" is the logical explanation for the existence of the universe, that also addresses the existence of anything that may or may not have created the universe?

Can we then further agree that a creator is not necessary for the existence of the universe?

[Vester]

Can we then further agree that a creator is not necessary for the existence of the universe?

Current (radical) Catholic theologians solve the problem of the lack of necessity by also positing that God is Sustainer as well as Creator. Yes, the first one is not a word.

The thing is although nobody really knows if or what god is with the young earth creationist we can't just back down and say we respect your beliefs if we want to keep living in a industrialized world, and if you think I'm being closed minded I will change my views when creationists start curing diseases, finding vital natural resources and inventing means of clean energy production.

The churches were responsible for all sorts of Science back in the day, but in modern times they've kind of run out of steam.

[MrWiggles]

They were sorta.

From my studies, the Church was apathetic at best. There are various discoveries made by the Church, though not because the church was directly interested in it, mostly.

One of the few things I remember the Catholic church did on purpose was switch to the more accurate Georgian calendar was was created for the Church.

Other religions were more positive towards that in. If we look at the Islam during about c1200 CE to about c1400 CE (give or take couple of century) we saw great strides in mathematics, engineering, literature, medicine, and astronomy. That all stopped dead cold during a religious conservative bent that dictated that education and books were evil.

[kuro_suna]

Other religions were more positive towards that in. If we look at the Islam during about c1200 CE to about c1400 CE (give or take couple of century) we saw great strides in mathematics, engineering, literature, medicine, and astronomy. That all stopped dead cold during a religious conservative bent that dictated that education and books were evil.

Also because the mongols burned all the library's, destroyed farmland and irrigation channels and flung plague corpse during sieges to depopulate entire citys.

[Jackrabbit]

That may have had something to do with it, yes. Just a bit.

[Grakelin]

The churches were responsible for all sorts of Science back in the day, but in modern times they've kind of run out of steam.

I think that's because we're not as theocratic as before. During Galileo's day, for example, his career would have been run by the Church. Nowadays, the Church doesn't actually hold legal power over all of Europe, so it falls to other people to do it, instead.

[Siquo]

The Church had the resources to lock people up and make them think all day long (monks).

The early discoveries of hereditary properties, and how species can be classified into groups instead of being totally separate, were done by monks, for instance. The foundations of the later evolution theory by Darwin.

RAM, can we just all agree that there is a God that created the universe for a purpose, and get on with it?

[Creaca]

It says a lot about the ego of man that the universes creation must be the act of a sentient being.

[Grakelin]

How so? It would say a lot about ego of man if the universe's creation had to be the act of a human being, but a sentient being can equate to any number of things.

I wouldn't be particularly narcissistic if I believed a dog created the universe, for instance.

It's more narcissistic to believe that sentience and human are the same thing.

[Creaca]

So you wouldn't say Humans are sentient? Well, I certainly can't argue with you on that front.


We see something we can't understand, we also see order and harmony to it. We either assume it's something humanity will eventually understand, and assuage our ego, or we create something superhuman that doesn't want us to understand it, and assuage our ego.

[Grakelin]

I am always astounded by how poor some people's ability to use logic is.

Being Human and being Sentient is not the same thing.

This does not mean that a Human is not Sentient.

You can be Sentient but not Human.