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[Starver]

@Starver (&Max): Funny thing is, evolution is a lot slower than the slowest human. Stupid people beget smart ones, and vice-versa. The largest increases in IQ that we've had in the world were through education, not breeding. [...]

IQ is a stupid measurement anyway (no pun intended!).  Even if I'd not come across so-called IQ tests that quite obviously have biases towards education/knowledge in many of the questions[1] I don't believe the values that I tended to get[2] from the ones that are better constructed and even differentiate individual IQ measurements down to spacial, numeric, logical, and other sub-categories.

I was more thinking of something equivalent to "Island populations", the separation of individual genetic intermixes from each other for sufficient time (really many millennia, not sure actually how long it would take in hominids, and there are still some controversies of whether Neanderthals and our ancesters could have interbred, regardless of whether they would have done so[3][4]...


[1] e.g. Unscramble some anagrams (needs at least some knowledge of English), and then say which of these is the odd one out (normally I'd say that was a knowledge issue as well, although, frankly, which would you say was the odd one out of Kennel, Cave, House and Tent?  That's not an IQ question, that latter part is like something from a "no answer is wrong" psychometric test where your choice indicates how you think...).

[2] Too high, if it matters.  Although even IQ aficionados who believe in the things tend to say that once you get near the 200s it becomes meaningless/inaccurate.

[3] "Oooh, I really like a bit of prominent eyebrow in my men, that's why I'm always dating those Neander Valley guys...  I know daddy said I should find a nice guy fresh out of Africa, but I'm a modern cavewoman and I'm entitled to date who I want...  And if Grrrr prefers his females without hairy backs, I want to be in there before anyone else from my tribe gets the taste for his kind of 'a bit of rough'...

[4] And, last I heard, they were still saying there was no sign of Neanderthal ancestry in any modern human.  But that's open to discussion and might be toppled by the next bit of genetic analysis done, if it hasn't been already...

[Neruz]

There's no Neanderthal DNA in humans; we're pure Cro Magnon. Odds are likely that the Cro Magnon were basically better at being humans than the Neanderthals and wiped them out by virtue of being more awesome.


We actually found a corpse dubbed Mitochondrial Eve. She's the common ancestor of Humans; Every single Human on the planet is descended from Mitochondrial Eve. Every single little bit of Mitochondrial DNA in your body, and everyone else's body, is directly descended from Mitochondrial Eve. Y-chromosomal Adam is the male variant (father of all living humans) Both Adam and Eve are Cro Magnon and lived before the 'out of Africa' migration, which basically means every living human on the planet is descended from Cro Magnon.

[Vester]

We wiped them out by eating them, you mean.

Actually, some studies I've read suggest that, while there wasn't any frequent direct competition, the Cro Magnon man just outbred the Neanderthals.

Victory by breeding. Darn right we're more awesome.

[Siquo]

Neruz... You're doing science wrong. AGAIN. Or still. You pick.

Previous investigations concentrated on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), which, owing to strictly matrilineal inheritance and subsequent vulnerability to genetic drift, is of limited value to disprove interbreeding of Neanderthals with Cro-Magnon people.

@Starver: If anything, we've been moving away from island populations. Never before in the history of man have so many different people from so many parts of the world and society interbred. Kings take peasant wives, millionaires marry waitresses, and travel is so cheap that I could find a girl of any nationality in the world in my city.
That people are now more "matching" on intellectual prowess is true, but I don't think the numbers are significant. There could be a case study there, though, although we'd first need a less stupid intelligence test.

[Neruz]

We wiped them out by eating them, you mean.

Actually, some studies I've read suggest that, while there wasn't any frequent direct competition, the Cro Magnon man just outbred the Neanderthals.

Victory by breeding. Darn right we're more awesome.

That's the most likely explaination, yes.

Neruz... You're doing science wrong. AGAIN. Or still. You pick.

No, i'm not. There is absolutely zero evidence that Neanderthals and Cro Magnon ever interbred. We have sequenced over a third of the Neanderthal genome and there's nothing, zip, the genome looks to be about 99.5% similar to our own, but that last 0.5% is the important bit, so to speak.

Mitochondrial Eve is but one piece of evidence, it is indeed of limited use, but it is still of use.



You'll note that i said that the Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosonal Adam ancestors mean that every human being on the planet is descended from Cro Magnon; this does not in any way mean that we could not also be descended from Neanderthals. Otther evidence (the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome, amongst other things) forms the core of the theory.

So take your goddamn head out of your ass.

[Vester]

Yep yep, they're as far from us as we are from Chimps. And we can't breed with Chimps.

[Neruz]

Pretty much.

[Siquo]

No, i'm not. There is absolutely zero evidence that Neanderthals and Cro Magnon ever interbred. We have sequenced over a third of the Neanderthal genome and there's nothing, zip, the genome looks to be about 99.5% similar to our own, but that last 0.5% is the important bit, so to speak.

There's also zero evidence that they didn't. There are good arguments back and forth and currently we still don't know. Please look it up. There's still a lot of dispute about this by people more learned in the subject than us.

You'll note that i said that the Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosonal Adam ancestors mean that every human being on the planet is descended from Cro Magnon; this does not in any way mean that we could not also be descended from Neanderthals. Otther evidence (the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome, amongst other things) forms the core of the theory.

Not in context. You use it as an argument against non-Cro-magnon ancestors. You said "we're pure Cro-Magnon". We might not be and there's no conclusive evidence that we are or aren't, so far, and Mitochondrial DNA or Y-chromosomes are not evidence at all.

[Grakelin]

we can't breed with Chimps.

That's because Apes are one step above Chimps.

TWO steps above Humans.

[Andir]

@Starver: If anything, we've been moving away from island populations.

Not really, if you consider we just removed the islands.  Mega cities.

[Neruz]

I see Siquo still doesn't understand the whole 'burden of proof' thing.

[Siquo]

I see Siquo still doesn't understand the whole 'burden of proof' thing.

Oh, I do, it's an argument used by people who have no arguments. 

I said no 'conclusive' evidence. There's evidence both against and for interspecies breeding, none of which is conclusive evidence. It's interesting enough to research, though, as we still don't know what exactly happened to the only other intelligent species we had and could communicate with on this planet.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

, though, as we still don't know what exactly happened to the only other intelligent species we had and could communicate with on this planet.

sure we do, we know they became extinct

[Neruz]

I see Siquo still doesn't understand the whole 'burden of proof' thing.

Oh, I do, it's an argument used by people who have no arguments. 

The evidence to the contrary is most compelling.

[Vester]

, though, as we still don't know what exactly happened to the only other intelligent species we had and could communicate with on this planet.

sure we do, we know they became extinct

Oh oh oh and they had funeral customs. Don't forget that.