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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 409767 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3855 on: May 05, 2010, 04:38:43 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulAl4OjwvG4

A video I watch when my being an theist gets me down because I'm not quite about it.
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Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3856 on: May 05, 2010, 04:45:20 pm »

A loudmouth praising loudmouthes, but only if they're on HIS side.

Nothing new to see there.

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Pwnzerfaust

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3857 on: May 05, 2010, 05:59:07 pm »

Because humans are stupid...

And I assume you think that you, and people like minded to you, are an exception?
Not that much of an exception, lots of people aren't human...

No, I am not an exception, but I am aware of the problem and trying to manage it...

The idea of a thousand rats dying in the place of one human doesn't sit well with me, now sure, if I was the one human I wouldn't much care for the implications, but then again, what if I was one of the thousand rats? At least in the case of a human you can offset the negatives, do something for their family, let them do something they always wanted to, something like that, instead of "Hey, you get to be trapped in your house for your entire life with an ear growing out of your back so that I can get published in Nature"... I mean, it isn't as though humans can't justify killing each other for fun, profit, curiosity, or emotional satisfaction...
<insert rest of post>
Any number of dead non-human animals is justifiable to save human lives.
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piecewise

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3858 on: May 05, 2010, 06:27:32 pm »

I really don't see why this thread still exists. Arguments like the ones it creates never have any real conclusion because in the end faith is just that, faith. I could offer perfectly logical reasonings for why any god doesn't or does exist but in the end it wouldn't matter what I said as long as the listener decided to hold on to their faith. And while my own personal feelings mirror those of Lovecraft, an agnostic in theory but atheistic and perhaps even Misotheist in practice, I rarely feel the need to argue with anyone except those that are blatantly using their supposed faith as a moral shield to do despicable things. And in the end I don't think you can really equate the actions those types of people carry out to their specific belief system because chances are they would have done it anyway, just under a different creed. This more supports the fact that humans in general are assholes then that any specific brand of faith is overtly dangerous. But I digress.

The point I'm trying to make here is that arguments over faith, especially over a lack of faith, are pointless. An atheist is an atheist because when he looks around and reflects on the knowledge he has of the world he does not see god. People aren't capable of simply suddenly believing in something, you can't flip a switch and believe or disbelieve. You can't argue a person into conversion, they have to do it on their own. So let them have their faith and let us have our science and let a few unfortunate people desperately try to mangle a middle ground out of them both.

Micro102

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3859 on: May 05, 2010, 06:33:20 pm »

If enough people get converted to atheists religion will die?
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3860 on: May 05, 2010, 06:35:13 pm »

If enough people get converted to atheists religion will die?
Doubt it... there will always be a person or groups of people that like to control other people. ;)
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

chaoticag

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3861 on: May 05, 2010, 06:48:19 pm »

It may make more sense if we talked about the things that happened to people because they said they were atheists, rather than discussing the possibility of proving atheism and disproving theism. There still are people out there that are discriminated because of it.
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3862 on: May 05, 2010, 06:53:18 pm »

It may make more sense if we talked about the things that happened to people because they said they were atheists, rather than discussing the possibility of proving atheism and disproving theism. There still are people out there that are discriminated because of it.
The only discrimination I can think of is being "dumped" by women who didn't like it... which I can understand.  I don't want to live with someone who doesn't share my belief.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Urist McOverlord

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3863 on: May 05, 2010, 06:57:47 pm »

I really don't see why this thread still exists. Arguments like the ones it creates never have any real conclusion because in the end faith is just that, faith. I could offer perfectly logical reasonings for why any god doesn't or does exist but in the end it wouldn't matter what I said as long as the listener decided to hold on to their faith. And while my own personal feelings mirror those of Lovecraft, an agnostic in theory but atheistic and perhaps even Misotheist in practice, I rarely feel the need to argue with anyone except those that are blatantly using their supposed faith as a moral shield to do despicable things. And in the end I don't think you can really equate the actions those types of people carry out to their specific belief system because chances are they would have done it anyway, just under a different creed. This more supports the fact that humans in general are assholes then that any specific brand of faith is overtly dangerous. But I digress.

The point I'm trying to make here is that arguments over faith, especially over a lack of faith, are pointless. An atheist is an atheist because when he looks around and reflects on the knowledge he has of the world he does not see god. People aren't capable of simply suddenly believing in something, you can't flip a switch and believe or disbelieve. You can't argue a person into conversion, they have to do it on their own. So let them have their faith and let us have our science and let a few unfortunate people desperately try to mangle a middle ground out of them both.

Arguing over faith is not exactly something that can be won, or even settled upon. That said, faiths do need to be challenged. I've seen a lot of arguments here that were rather insightful, and really challenged a lot of what I thought. I can't speak for everyone, but my purpose in this debate isn't about changing the faiths of others, it's about having my own challenged. Sometimes the point of arguing isn't winning, but just trying not to lose.
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chaoticag

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3864 on: May 05, 2010, 07:05:57 pm »

It may make more sense if we talked about the things that happened to people because they said they were atheists, rather than discussing the possibility of proving atheism and disproving theism. There still are people out there that are discriminated because of it.
The only discrimination I can think of is being "dumped" by women who didn't like it... which I can understand.  I don't want to live with someone who doesn't share my belief.
http://www.blaghag.com/2010/05/purdue-non-theist-display-case.html
It doesn't need to be from your own life. Someone else's works fine.
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RAM

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3865 on: May 05, 2010, 11:12:45 pm »

Humans wouldn't kill other intellegent lifeforms. Rats basically want to survive, and they are doing better then they would out in the wild. It's not like they get some sort of pleasure running out in the feilds trying not to be mualed and eaten by owls. If you were one of those rats noone would experiment on you because you have the mind of a human.
Humans don't have a clue what another intelligent life-form would look like, and have no reason to think they know what one 'doesn't' look like. And besides, humans kill humans all the time, and by your phrasing it is clear that you assume that humans are intelligent...

CEOs basically want to survive, and they would do better then they do out in the wild. It's not like they get some sort of pleasure working out in the market trying not to lose money and get taken over by rivals. If you were one of those rats someone would experiment on you because you cannot communicate in the same manner as a human.


All this nonsense about humans being completely sacred is a large part of religion's strength. People have a massive desire to find out exactly why they are so much more important than everything else...
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chaoticag

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3866 on: May 05, 2010, 11:16:32 pm »

Well, we certainly are not the only tool making animals out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcvbgq2SSyc
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Grakelin

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3867 on: May 06, 2010, 02:29:38 am »


All this nonsense about humans being completely sacred is a large part of religion's strength. People have a massive desire to find out exactly why they are so much more important than everything else...

Yes, that perfectly explains this and this.
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Vester

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3868 on: May 06, 2010, 02:32:42 am »

Humans wouldn't kill other intellegent lifeforms. Rats basically want to survive, and they are doing better then they would out in the wild. It's not like they get some sort of pleasure running out in the feilds trying not to be mualed and eaten by owls. If you were one of those rats noone would experiment on you because you have the mind of a human.
Humans don't have a clue what another intelligent life-form would look like, and have no reason to think they know what one 'doesn't' look like. And besides, humans kill humans all the time, and by your phrasing it is clear that you assume that humans are intelligent...

CEOs basically want to survive, and they would do better then they do out in the wild. It's not like they get some sort of pleasure working out in the market trying not to lose money and get taken over by rivals. If you were one of those rats someone would experiment on you because you cannot communicate in the same manner as a human.

... From the way you're typing, I'd say you're channeling Deathworks.

On the other hand, I'd easily agree, if only because I don't get the massive hate "Big Business" gets for behaving exactly as it should in a capitalist world.
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Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3869 on: May 06, 2010, 05:06:35 am »

What Urist said. That's also the reason why I'm here.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))
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