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[Pwnzerfaust]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

This link discusses it in very simple terms, and I think that when you distance the term 'spirituality' from 'religion', you will realize that it's probably something you value.

I just don't like the word "spirituality", myself. Its connotation seems too religious for me to label myself as spiritual.

Well, if you're starving and your life is a general pile of crap, why believe in God then? He clearly gave a shit about you.

That's the whole point: You may suffer momentarily, but the meek shall inherit the earth, and you will live for eternity in bliss. Having such a "pension" to look forward to may make your misery more bearable.

I think it's something of a cop-out. If you convince yourself that you've got something waiting for you after you die, it almost seems like an exemption from trying to improve your conditions. And trying to convince people to just "accept Jesus and all will be fine after you die" seems not only dishonest but irresponsible in that sense. It seems it would do so much more for the person if you gave them practical advice on how to improve their life's conditions, rather than some unsubstantial religious fluff.

[RAM]

Nonononononononononono no no no no!!! religion does not offer any more spirituality that it absolutely has to for its hooks to sink into the desperate masses. As soon as it is able it replaces spirituality with doctrine and excercise. I can keep a sense of epiphany going all day long if I want to but to actually achieve anything requires exploration, and that doesn't grow in propaganda*...

If you really want spirituality stop asking the scary sky panda how it is secretly conspiring to end the world and find your own place in the world though meditation and/or inspiration*...

*Propaganda can be a perfectly valid source of inspiration so long as you don't actually believe it...

[Vester]

Hey, I worship that scary sky panda!

For a nice look at heavy spirituality within a religion, look at the Aton religion of Egypt or the earliest form of the Hebrew religion.

[Siquo]

So, today I attended the first communion of my niece. I'm hardly ever (counting on one hand still) attending church, and the Catholic church just can't stop baffling me with its incantations and mystic rites.

Anyhow, the topic was the Shepherd and its Sheep. He went on about how the Sheep are Shepherded, and the Shepherd protected the sheep, and led them back to the flock if they went astray. In a way, parents and teachers were shepherds too, and God/Jesus was the Shepherd of all Mankind.

What my skeptic self was hearing was: "Obey the Authority! I am the Authority! Obey Me!" 

BUT, then he went on about where a good shepherd walks. There are good and bad shepherds, and the good ones walk behind their flock. They are led by their sheep to the greener pastures, not the other way around. He merely helps them on their way, and protects them, but the Sheep choose the way themselves.
And I couldn't help but find that reassuring and pretty. That is what a good parent does, what a good shepherd does, and probably, what a good God would do.

[Andir]

BUT, then he went on about where a good shepherd walks. There are good and bad shepherds, and the good ones walk behind their flock. They are led by their sheep to the greener pastures, not the other way around. He merely helps them on their way, and protects them, but the Sheep choose the way themselves.
And I couldn't help but find that reassuring and pretty. That is what a good parent does, what a good shepherd does, and probably, what a good God would do.

That's what my parent's Border Collie does.  He circles around behind people and cars he doesn't know, herding them.  (He does it to the fire ring as well until he starts trying to bite the flames out, but that's another issue.)

I don't like being a sheep though.  He just stares you down.

[Siquo]

The herding thing has good sides and bad sides, and it all depends on the shepherd, I guess...

[Andir]

The herding thing has good sides and bad sides, and it all depends on the shepherd, I guess...

I guess a side point to that is that he was bread to herd.  It's in the nature of BC's to herd things and they are used on farms.  He's not doing Jesus'/God's work.  He's doing what it takes to gain control of the situation in the only way he knows how.  It's instinctive and an insight to the psyche of the herder and herded mentality.  You don't need to believe in Jesus, God, or Unicorns to see that it's a tactic used to intimidate sheep into doing what you need of them.  If they need, BCs will nip at the legs of the animal (and sometimes children, if they feel like they are herding them) to nudge them along.  Preacher's bite, but they do it with words.

I never liked the idea that Christians accept the idea that they are sheep though.  I mean, it fits rather well, but it's sad that someone would give up their self to let someone tell them how to live their life.

[Siquo]

Have you even read what I typed?

[chaoticag]

Uhhh, so how do you know whether or not the biblical God is a good shepherd? Seems pretty accusational too, since sheep are unable to lead themselves to greener pastures.

People are capable of shepherding themselves.

[Grakelin]

Nonononononononononono no no no no!!! religion does not offer any more spirituality that it absolutely has to for its hooks to sink into the desperate masses. As soon as it is able it replaces spirituality with doctrine and excercise. I can keep a sense of epiphany going all day long if I want to but to actually achieve anything requires exploration, and that doesn't grow in propaganda*...

If you really want spirituality stop asking the scary sky panda how it is secretly conspiring to end the world and find your own place in the world though meditation and/or inspiration*...

*Propaganda can be a perfectly valid source of inspiration so long as you don't actually believe it...

Obvious troll is obvious.

[chaoticag]

Not really. Some people think that religion is made to serve the man. Ask Karl Marx about it.

Besides which, I don't think you need spirituality to get through life. I certainly don't care about the meaning of life.

[Andir]

Yep, I'm perfectly happy with the idea of working in a job I enjoy, paying for what I need to live and when it's all done, fertilizing a plot of land for future generations to enjoy.

[AtomicPaperclip]

The herding thing has good sides and bad sides, and it all depends on the shepherd, I guess...

So what you're saying is, the Catholic church = Communist China?

That was intended to be humorous, but I hope you get the point.

[Siquo]

No, AP, that is exactly what it is. A good idea, turned for the worse. Although much of the worst stuff (like starting holy wars and such) has died down since criticism and scrutiny on the Catholic church have increased, China isn't there yet.

@chaoticag: Sheep are perfectly capable of finder greener pastures, they did so before there were shepherds, and will continue long after the shepherds. They can find them better than the shepherd can, so the shepherd follows the flock, and is merely there for support. I knid of liked that vision, if not just for God, at least for parenting.

[Andir]

Sheep are perfectly capable of finder greener pastures, they did so before there were shepherds, and will continue long after the shepherds. They can find them better than the shepherd can, so the shepherd follows the flock, and is merely there for support. I knid of liked that vision, if not just for God, at least for parenting.

I imagine a bunch of toddlers being heard by their parents to the refrigerator.