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[Siquo]

So is the correlation between income and education... So that proves nothing.
I know it's a bold unsupported claim, but I can imagine that needing support and meaning to life is more of an issue if your life sucks to begin with.

[Dwarf]

LOL @ Grakelin 

@Kebooo & Dwarf: Apparently it's a common thing, most people fear death, and the nothingness. That you live, you die, and all the suffering in between was for nought. Suffering, yes, as most people on this planet still do. You might be in the luxurious position of having all the food you can eat every day, having spare time to discuss topics on the internet, and having the option on a satisfactory life in general, but most people on this planet don't (that was presumptuous of me as I know nothing of your suffering and I apologise, but since you have internet and time to spare, it's a good guess).


I'm willing to bet that mostly "rich" people (compared to the average world-citizen) are atheists. It's a luxury thing.

Well, if you're starving and your life is a general pile of crap, why believe in God then? He clearly gave a shit about you.

[Siquo]

Well, if you're starving and your life is a general pile of crap, why believe in God then? He clearly gave a shit about you.

That's the whole point: You may suffer momentarily, but the meek shall inherit the earth, and you will live for eternity in bliss. Having such a "pension" to look forward to may make your misery more bearable.

[Shakzen]

I don't believe money should have any place in this debate. Atheism is not a commodity to be bought or sold, it is a belief. It is your situation in life that determines your beliefs, even the poor can be happy, and the rich sad. Sadness in life can lead to someone seeking something higher. People sometimes want to believe that their life is "all part of a plan," and that after they die they will be rewarded in heaven. There is no proof of god, and there never has been any, but people don't need proof, they will believe in a greater power partly out of basic human greed. People who live hard lives tend to want a reward for doing so. I am in no way saying that this is the only reason people believe in god, I am merely stating that it is one of them. If my arguments have not already made this obvious, let me state that I am indeed an atheist. Let me also state that I don't care what you believe in, you have the right to think whatever you want. I only wish that I would get the same respect.

[Earthquake Damage]

That's the whole point: You may suffer momentarily, but the meek shall inherit the earth, and you will live for eternity in bliss. Having such a "pension" to look forward to may make your misery more bearable.

+1

[RAM]

That is like a business owner telling every single employer that if they work for 20 years at the minimum possible wage under the worst possible conditions that they will get half ownership of the company at the end of it. And flatly refusing to sign any documentation to that effect, always replying "If you don't trust me then I don't want you running the company".

It isn't possible, even if it was, it isn't trustworthy, and even if it was, it isn't reliable...

[Dwarf]

Also, you'll never meet the boss himself, only some people who say they speak for him.

I come to the conclusion: It is pure naïveté/dumbness.

[Micro102]

Well, if you're starving and your life is a general pile of crap, why believe in God then? He clearly gave a shit about you.

That's the whole point: You may suffer momentarily, but the meek shall inherit the earth, and you will live for eternity in bliss. Having such a "pension" to look forward to may make your misery more bearable.

If that is true and god rewards you for a life of poor conditions, why did the church amass huge amounts of wealth as donations and decorate everything with gold? And why does he even need to test people? If he is god then he can simply make people believe in him.

[Grakelin]

There is no causation between you being poor and you being Christian. The Church makes its money through donations, yes. They do not demand that you fork over everything you own.

Certain sects of Christianity actually consider the wealth you accrue in your lifetime to be a measure of how faithful you are to God, and you are expected to work as hard as you possibly can at your career. If you are poor and miserable, it means you haven't been doing your service to God.

So no, it's not like your boss telling you to work in crummy conditions for 20 years. It's like your boss telling you to work hard and make your family happy, and maybe you'll get the company.

[Godwin]

There is no causation between you being poor and you being Christian. The Church makes its money through donations, yes. They do not demand that you fork over everything you own.

Certain sects of Christianity actually consider the wealth you accrue in your lifetime to be a measure of how faithful you are to God, and you are expected to work as hard as you possibly can at your career. If you are poor and miserable, it means you haven't been doing your service to God.

So no, it's not like your boss telling you to work in crummy conditions for 20 years. It's like your boss telling you to work hard and make your family happy, and maybe you'll get the company.

Well no, that's assuming that all religion is is a crazy bloke standing on the street corner who yells at you and tells you to make money and good shit will ensue. There are rules, and books, and lots of crazy ass stories about people murdering people and daughters boning their drunk uncle.

The problem here is that you're getting mired in the metaphor. The point is that God is basically asking for a lifetime of devotion, sorry, priests say God asks for a lifetime of devotion with promises of a great happy sunshine rainbow land to come after you've died, with absolutely no evidence as to the fact. The point being not that if you're religious you'll be poor, but that if you're religious you'll be wasting countless hours and dollars on the equivalent of an insurance plan from Senior Pirelli, miracle tonic salesman. Of course at least after he's taken your money he won't ask for you to praise him and lick his boots for all eternity (unless he decided to spice up the contract).


And that's also an abominable world view to have seeing as how many financial traps and dead ends there are that can lead to even the most hard working of fellows being shit broke. If that really is God's policy I think I need to have a word with the managerial comity in heaven.

[Micro102]

Maybe you guys should agree on something before trying to argue against the same point.

[Grakelin]

There's an astounding lack of consideration being put into the benefits people get from being in a religion in this thread. It is hard for a person who does not share a particular faith to understand, but spirituality is an important part of our lives (in before somebody tries to offer a rebuttal as to why spirituality isn't an important part of our lives: When you do, at least make sure you've read a book about it or something), and a religion offers up spirituality in spades.

[Cheeetar]

Define spirituality. I've never understood it as a need or a concept.

[Grakelin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

This link discusses it in very simple terms, and I think that when you distance the term 'spirituality' from 'religion', you will realize that it's probably something you value.

[Cheeetar]

I don't really get it. Is a need for spirituality a need to define life and find meaning, or something else?