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[LegoLord]

Dwarf snapping a dude's arm off.  Quite obviously a fight.  Fights are pretty much universally recognized as such.

[MrWiggles]

Dwarf snapping a dude's arm off.  Quite obviously a fight.  Fights are pretty much universally recognized as such.

Was it justified? Did he mean to do it? Does he deserve to die? What was the color o of the de armed dorf hair? Would it be examined as justified in a different cultural setting? Maybe it was a self defense maybe it was a brutal attack. Could someone be convince that it didn't happen?

[RAM]

Maybe it was a mating ritual, or a right of passages, I mean, what's the big deal? Everyone knows that arms grow back...


.+. = ..
..+.. = ....

Hello to you too.

I can get about three interpretations out of that, it wasn't until the third that I was correct...


Realistically, these are good examples that would be pretty convincing, but I would probably be more irritated at them than convinced... But even if god exists, it is no reason to worship it, or them. Anyone who abandons their own morality in favour of something that is so much greater than them that they cannot fully comprehend it, has abandoned morality for something that they do not understand. The lack of evidence to support its existence just takes it so far out of likelihood that it is getting silly...

[Muz]

Worshipping God gives you power. I have the power to succeed in things using only the power of prayer. If I worship God and sacrifice enough goblins to him, I bet God will give me resistance to lightening.

[MrWiggles]

Worshipping God gives you power. I have the power to succeed in things using only the power of prayer. If I worship God and sacrifice enough goblins to him, I bet God will give me resistance to lightening.

[Leafsnail]

So I was thinking of the ole question of what would change your mind about god.

I came down to two things, that though wouldn't change my mind to holy fuck yes there a god, but probably shift me from de facto atheist.

A data sheet that can't be misinterpreted, be it book, movie, play. What ever language it was translated into, it would be perfectly translated by whoever did the translation. Even if you play alta vista babel fish telephone, it will always be the same. All backgrounds, all parts of the world would read this information the same and come away with the same thing.
You can throw in some science truth in there too.

The other is a viable animal that has no genetic materiel.


What would connivence the other none delusional? 

I would be convinced by millions of things.

1.  The stars are realligned tommorow to spell "god is here".
2.  God comes down from the heavens and starts smiting people.
3.  If I can see or measure anything that even remotely suggests a god.
4.  If I am able to perform amazing miracles myself, due to someone else (this is crucial.  Seeing other people doing them isn't good enough.  David Copperfield can perform "miracles".

All of these things are easily within god's infinite power, and they would convince almost anyone of the existance of a god.  So why doesn't He do it?

Even if I were somehow convinced of the existance of Yahweh and Jesus, then I see no reason to worship them.  Both are simply threatening me with violence to worship them, and I feel that I would not want to compromise my morals just to suit these two (or one, I don't care) bigots.  Believers talk of atheists having to beg for forgiveness from god, but what kind of sick, twisted, non dwarven being forces people to beg for their own souls just for using their logic?

[LegoLord]

Edit:  Never mind, you two probably can't even keep different religions straight.  All I'll say is that anyone who thinks Jesus a bigot has only heard about him from hearsay.  From faux-Christians.  And is probably a bigot himself for claiming religious people are immoral.

[Ampersand]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The method by which we judge the qualities of a person is something internal, not external. According to Leafsnail's personal morality, Jesus is a bigot. It is a relative thing, and you cannot claim that he is wrong, because he is only wrong according to your morality.

[LegoLord]

He largely preached morality and never called people names for not being Christian.  The term "bigot" is not defined by personal morality but one's status as a bigot is determined by their prejudices.  If you are heavily prejudiced (for example, calling all Christians immoral), then you are a bigot.

[Ampersand]

Would I be a bigot for calling all Nazi's immoral?

[MrWiggles]

Would I be a bigot for calling all Nazi's immoral?

Yes.

Sweeping statements are bad in practice.

[LegoLord]

Bigotry would be calling all Germans from the WWII period murderous bastards.  It's just not true.  Most Germans didn't even know that the Holocaust was happening, and most of them only joined the Nazi party because a) it was the only political party allowed at the time, and b) you really weren't able to get any good jobs if you weren't a member.  Nazism was immoral, but there was little choice.  Different situation entirely.

[Ampersand]

You're both confusing the statement. I'm not saying anyone who claims to be a nazi is immoral.

Anyone who willingly, knowingly accepts the concept of Nazism as True and Right is, in my definition of Morality, immoral.

Is it a bigoted, sweeping statement? Yes. But is it wrong? How can it be?

Not all ideas are equally deserving of respect. If it makes me a bigot to claim that anyone who accepts Nazism, knowing full well all it entails, is immoral, then I am a bigot.

[LegoLord]

You're both confusing the statement. I'm not saying anyone who claims to be a nazi is immoral.

Anyone who willingly, knowingly accepts the concept of Nazism as True and Right is, in my definition of Morality, immoral.

Is it a bigoted, sweeping statement? Yes. But is it wrong? How can it be?

Not all ideas are equally deserving of respect. If it makes me a bigot to claim that anyone who accepts Nazism, knowing full well all it entails, is immoral, then I am a bigot.

If it's true, then it's not prejudice.  Prejudice is based on an altered view of how things are.  Then it is not bigotry.  It's also not a very sweeping statement, because it narrows down on a very specific (and I might mention very small) group.

[Andir]

If morality is tied to bigotry and morality is relative... ipso facto, bigotry is relative.