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[Andir]

You say they 'hated' going to church, which lets me assume that they no longer do. If they were truly 'brainwashed', they would continue to go to church today, don't you think? And keep in mind that faith is not defined by the church you attend...you church is just a building, and your priest is just a man. If your father's church had a 'shit list' for people who didn't donate enough, obviously he was not going to a very honest church.

Believers are not bent on brainwashing everyone to believe their beliefs. Sure, there are extremists and radicals, but they have nothing to do with what the faith is about, they are just people with the wrong ideas.

  All in all, I remember going to two different churches as a kid myself.  My parents have attempted to find at least 2 more after that that I know of.  I believe they are starting fresh in yet another church.  I believe there were Protestant, Baptist, and at least one other branch of Christianity.  Pretty much all of them have been the same from the stories they told me.  They keep going back for more and more.  I told them before our agreement, but they still keep going.  How's that for brainwashing?

[LegoLord]

@ Andir:
No.  You didn't even read my last post, did you?  That's leftover from when religious tolerance didn't exist.  People thought that they had to do what everyone else did, taught their kids that, who taught their kids that, and so on until it became a tradition.  And complaining about the seating?  Just how many churches have you actually been to?  I've only ever been in two churches that had wooden seats, and one was essentially built to replicate a church from the colonization period brick-for-brick.  A museum of itself, one could say.  The other was part of a Catholic school.  I've been to plenty of other churches, and they had cushions on their seats.  Stupid reason to hate it.

The actual religion hasn't got a thing to do with it, it's the bigots running things.  Not all of the people running them are even bigots.  My church has a great preacher in on Sundays, and he doesn't act at all like those you speak of.  He often talks of morality and tells us stories of things that have happened in his life or those he knows as examples of how to act in a morally responsible way.  He rarely says anything about religion at all in these stories, and if he does it isn't what the story is about.

  In religion you have brain-washing bigots, who only brainwash because of their bigotry, and then in atheism you have bigots, who only look at religion's bigots and base their entire view of religion and religious people on the bigots.  It's all just a cycle of stupidity among bigots, with non-bigots in the middle taking flak from both sides.  Also, I can guarantee you that if there was a church of Atheism, then there would be some bigot trying to brainwash people in it too.

I only go to church when I feel like it.  Does that make me a bad Christian?  If you said yes, then you don't know near as much about religion as you should to get into any sort of debate about it (which are stupid in the first place), which really doesn't take that much effort to know.

Now will you please just drop it and let this thread die already? 

[Helmaroc]

All in all, I remember going to two different churches as a kid myself.  My parents have attempted to find at least 2 more after that that I know of.  I believe they are starting fresh in yet another church.  I believe there were Protestant, Baptist, and at least one other branch of Christianity.  Pretty much all of them have been the same from the stories they told me.  They keep going back for more and more.  I told them before our agreement, but they still keep going.  How's that for brainwashing?

It sounds to me like your parents consider themselves Christians and are just trying to find a church they like, I see no connections to brainwashing. Either way, I don't want to argue, and I agree with LegoLord in that we should just let this thread die away.

[RAM]

It is easy to believe in something if you have a definition for it. "God just did it." is about as believable as "It's turtles all the way down". Which actually makes more sense than god because an infinite series of turtles is consistent, an infinite series of gods would be similar, but each would be assumed to have chosen to make a successive god at a point after they were created, which would involve time in the equation which is just brutal on a topic like that... And please tell me that every single god made their own world, the alternative of "nope, just ours" is painful... Of course, the infinite gods theory is blasphemous, so we are left with "why god?", to which the only answer is, "just because!" call me crazy if you want but that sounds far too complicated to be the base truth of existence to me...

The first rule of Atheisms thread is: You do not talk about Atheism thread.

[Idiom]

sounds far too complicated to be the base truth of existence to me...

Multiverse?

[MrWiggles]

sounds far too complicated to be the base truth of existence to me...

Multiverse?

Multiverse: The middle finger to mathematicians.

[RAM]

What would multiverse solve?
Either each verse has a different god, in which case every verse has the same problem. Or they all share the same god, which doesn't solve anything...

[Idiom]

sounds far too complicated to be the base truth of existence to me...

Multiverse?

Multiverse: The middle finger to mathematicians.

The middle finger to logic. It double teams with Copenhagen to asplode scientist's heads everywhere.

[MrWiggles]

What would multiverse solve?
Either each verse has a different god, in which case every verse has the same problem. Or they all share the same god, which doesn't solve anything...

The multiverse idea is used in a few aspects. For quantum mechanics it used to absolved some of the paradoxes in some of the interpretation. Not the one that I subscribe to.

The multiverse is used cosmology as an attempt to explain the uniform nature and the causation of the big bang.

From my understanding, these two uses aren't related. IIRC, the cosmological one is mathematically coherent.

[Idiom]

For quantum mechanics it used to absolved some of the paradoxes in some of the interpretation. Not the one that I subscribe to.

And which specific one do you subscribe to, out of curiosity?

[MrWiggles]

For quantum mechanics it used to absolved some of the paradoxes in some of the interpretation. Not the one that I subscribe to.

And which specific one do you subscribe to, out of curiosity?

Transactional.

The short version is this: Particles emit propagation and retardation waves. The propagation waves are FTL and thusly travel backwards, fixing the issue with spooky action at a distance as they inform what the other particle is doing to everyone else, seemingly at once. They have yet to be observed. However, its physically possible. The retardation waves are the everyday interaction that we observe. From my understanding, it really has the few amount of paradoxes, sadly it about equal in assumptions.

[Idiom]

The propagation waves are FTL and thusly travel backwards.

D'oh! God should have made it a long int.

spooky action at a distance as they inform what the other particle is doing to everyone else, seemingly at once.

I can't wait until we figure out spooky interactions. I want instantaneous* computing power.

[MrWiggles]

Quantum Computing.

A man can dream. A man can dream.

Until then, I'm hopeful for diamond IC. More heat, more circuits. MORE POWAH!

We might be able to use nanowidth carbon ICs. There experiments with the materials right now for super capacitors to store industrial amounts of electricity.

I've heard conservative estimates that super computing will be done with magnetic bubble sold state tech in 14 years. So in 25 years it'll be commercial. 

[Heron TSG]

Well, I decided to pop back in for a post.

You guys are hilarious. 40+ pages about a lack of religion?

I'll just throw in my chunk of food for thought. I'm an Atheist, and nothing that anyone ever says in this topic can change that.

bye. 

[Idiom]

Quantum Computing.

A man can dream. A man can dream.

Until then, I'm hopeful for diamond IC. More heat, more circuits. MORE POWAH!

We might be able to use nanowidth carbon ICs. There experiments with the materials right now for super capacitors to store industrial amounts of electricity.

I've heard conservative estimates that super computing will be done with magnetic bubble sold state tech in 14 years. So in 25 years it'll be commercial. 

Quantum Computing.

A man can dream. A man can dream.

Until then, I'm hopeful for diamond IC. More heat, more circuits. MORE POWAH!

We might be able to use nanowidth carbon ICs. There experiments with the materials right now for super capacitors to store industrial amounts of electricity.

I've heard conservative estimates that super computing will be done with magnetic bubble sold state tech in 14 years. So in 25 years it'll be commercial. 

25 years. Damn. Half of me never wants to see that because it will make the Internet 2.0 transition finally feasible worldwide. Back to owning dumb terminals and renting computing power from supercomputers. There will be no privacy, no security, no real ownership. The original internet will likely go underground and be full of dedicated pirates.

But none of that matters when you can play DF 1.0 on your cellphone, right?