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[Siquo]

I don't think that's the case. The personality, as we've understood so far, is one with the hardware it runs upon. The hardware is also constantly rewiring itself. There's a whole new level of complexity there that is very much incomparable to computers.

MEART (I just looked it up, looks interesting) is still a wet brain. And as far as I can tell, they've got no idea how it works exactly internally, as long as it does.

I'm agreeing with you that eventually we'll get there, but calling our current computers "intelligent" is a step too far.

[Neruz]

So you didn't actually read my post at all did you.

[Siquo]

*looks again*

Yes, I read all 30 words. That I apparently misunderstood what you meant is the problem of the sender.

Could you point out where in your post you said something sensible?

[Neruz]

I mean the one before that you dolt. The one where i said that it wasn't a perfect argument, merely an interesting point to consider.


Seriously Siquo.

[Siquo]

I'm dead serious. How would I know you meant the one before the last one, if you don't even tell me what to look for?

Rule of Thumb: If people don't understand what you mean, it's generally your fault for not explaining well, not theirs for not understanding.

Try again. What don't I understand? That it's an interesting point? Sure it is, but not with the current state of computer "intelligence". As I said.

[Neruz]

You are strawmanning Siquo. Please point to the location in my post where i said that computers were intelligent.

[Siquo]

I could probably make a reasonable case for Computers being an alien intelligence.

[Andir]

I could probably make a reasonable case for Computers being an alien intelligence.

Erm... on Neruz's behalf, "alien intelligence" doesn't necessarily imply intelligent.  (...at least IMHO)  Alien being not native, and intelligence being deterministic.

[Siquo]

Whoohoo, semantics.

Intelligence has a lot of definitions according to Webster.
You can't blame someone for picking a different one than you meant, if you don't specify what you mean.

1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations :  reason; also  : the skilled use of reason (2) :  the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) b  Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c : mental acuteness : shrewdness
2 a : an intelligent entity; especially : angel b : intelligent minds or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3 : the act of understanding : comprehension
4 a : information, news b : information concerning an enemy or possible enemy or an area; also : an agency engaged in obtaining such information
5 : the ability to perform computer functions

Neruz probably meant #1a(1), I meant #2.

#5 is cool in this context, as it's a tautology. 

[Neruz]

I could probably make a reasonable case for Computers being an alien intelligence.

I love how you went ahead and quoted something you ovbiously did not read.

I'm also quite sure i went on to say that it depended how you define Intelligence, also your definition 2 there is useless. "Intelligence means an intelligent entity" YEAH. GREAT HELP THERE.

[Siquo]

Relax. If someone sais "A is an intelligence" and I read that as "A is intelligent" that's not so bad, right? And I was merely going along with your hypothesis, affirming that it could become true, but isn't right now. Don't get so defensive. I've called you WRONG several times in this thread, this is really not one of them. I was agreeing with you (on a few points), however alien that concept may sound.

[Neruz]

Relax. If someone sais "A is an intelligence" and I read that as "A is intelligent" that's not so bad, right? And I was merely going along with your hypothesis, affirming that it could become true, but isn't right now. Don't get so defensive. I've called you WRONG several times in this thread, this is really not one of them. I was agreeing with you (on a few points), however alien that concept may sound.

No goddamnit Siquo; i was saying i could probably make a reasonable case for computers (or programs if you will) being an 'alien' intelligence. I then went on to say that it depended on how you defiend intelligent and that the case was probably not airtight. It was purely a mental excersize.

You then proceeded to tell me that you don't think that was the case and that calling our current computers 'intelligent' was a step too far, which is either a complete non sequitor or responding to something i didn't type.

[Siquo]

Right back at ya:

Where did I say that you said that computers are intelligent? 

[Neruz]

We don't have computers that pass Turing tests, we've got programs that pass Turing tests. Programs use logic, and the computer is merely a frame on which they operate. You could simulate the entire program by doing all the calculations with on paper.

The programs were created by man and can be analysed in a way we wouldn't be able to with biological intelligences, making them far less "alien" than them. Until we can create programs that can create programs in a sensible way (we're getting there! Singularity here we come!) they're still not what I'd call intelligent.

I'm agreeing with you that eventually we'll get there, but calling our current computers "intelligent" is a step too far.

Right there. By stating the negative, you implied the positive, as otherwise you would not be able to refute it with the negative.

[Siquo]

I'm agreeing with you that eventually we'll get there, but calling our current computers "intelligent" is a step too far.

Right there. By stating the negative, you implied the positive, as otherwise you would not be able to refute it with the negative.

It's not a refute of anything, it's a statement: "calling our current computers "intelligent" is a step too far" that has nothing to do with YOU. Look, this is all one big miscommunication, shall we agree that we actually agree with eachother for once?!