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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 409636 times)

Kebooo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3135 on: April 16, 2010, 12:20:17 am »

[size=9]THE HELL IT ISN'T![/size][/u]
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Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3136 on: April 16, 2010, 02:33:55 am »

According to Neruz' definition, I am also an atheist.

To think I've argued debated flamed conversed with atheists for more than 150 pages in this thread, and all the while I was one myself!  ;D

I think it boils down to:
a-(theism)
or
(athe)-ism

Where most people pick the second, and Neruz picked the first. I think the common rules say the second one is usually how it's done, otherwise it'd be called a-theism.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 02:36:14 am by Siquo »
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
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Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3137 on: April 16, 2010, 03:43:17 am »

Quote
Where most people pick the second, and Neruz picked the first.

Why on earth would you make bold assertion?
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!!&!!

Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3138 on: April 16, 2010, 03:46:19 am »

Because it seems to me that most people do.

Example:
Sample group: this thread.
Nr of responses to the definition: 3.
People who shared Neruz' definition: 0.

That's why.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

RAM

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3139 on: April 16, 2010, 03:58:33 am »

Why god!
Why god, ...
Why god?
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3140 on: April 16, 2010, 04:32:58 am »

Because it seems to me that most people do.

Example:
Sample group: this thread.
Nr of responses to the definition: 3.
People who shared Neruz' definition: 0.

That's why.


Er. I share Neruz' definition. As far as I know, most of the Atheists who've posted in this thread, since I bothered to actually read their posts, stick with Neruz's definition. In fact, I think I posted that same definition back on page 2 or something.
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Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3141 on: April 16, 2010, 04:34:05 am »

Still, that's 3-2. That's why.  ;D
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will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
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Ampersand

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3142 on: April 16, 2010, 04:38:38 am »

Didn't you say under Neruz's definition, you are an atheist? Doesn't that make it 3-3?

And, you realize more than six people have posted in this thread?

You realize this thread is nearing it's ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY?
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Siquo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3143 on: April 16, 2010, 04:49:49 am »

I like definitions, it doesn't mean that I have the same definition.

And no, no I did not realize that.

We should have cake. That is a 200+ page thread about religion that has not been locked for over a year.

This forum still amazes me.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Durin

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3144 on: April 16, 2010, 06:12:24 am »

We should have cake. That is a 200+ page thread about religion that has not been locked for over a year.

This forum still amazes me.

That IS amazing.
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Andir

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3145 on: April 16, 2010, 06:38:15 am »

If it matters, I pick the definition of Atheism that says: "I'm pretty certain there is no God, and I don't care if other people worship it as long as they don't force it on me."
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Huesoo

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3146 on: April 16, 2010, 09:28:00 am »

Quote
Atheism is commonly described as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader meaning is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

Just gonna leave this here.
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Durin

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3147 on: April 16, 2010, 10:09:09 am »

"Believe" is a word with two denotations.  One is that you actually believe something wholeheartedly.  The other is that the thing you believe is your best guess.  Most theists believe in their religion using the second denotation.  Often, atheists seem to want to assert that theists must use the first denotation, but that they themselves are allowed the second, i.e. that they "lack a belief". 

It's all well and good, but I find it rather circuitous, and I feel it is rather presumptuous when I, as a Christian, am told I have a belief and am making assertions based on that belief while they "lack a belief".  After a while it comes across as purposeful obfuscation.  Everyone "believes" something.  That is their best guess.  There's no single "neutral" belief in that sense, or "lack of belief".

That's my two cents on that.
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fenrif

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3148 on: April 16, 2010, 10:23:35 am »

"Believe" is a word with two denotations.  One is that you actually believe something wholeheartedly.  The other is that the thing you believe is your best guess.  Most theists believe in their religion using the second denotation.  Often, atheists seem to want to assert that theists must use the first denotation, but that they themselves are allowed the second, i.e. that they "lack a belief". 

It's all well and good, but I find it rather circuitous, and I feel it is rather presumptuous when I, as a Christian, am told I have a belief and am making assertions based on that belief while they "lack a belief".  After a while it comes across as purposeful obfuscation.  Everyone "believes" something.  That is their best guess.  There's no single "neutral" belief in that sense, or "lack of belief".

That's my two cents on that.

I've never heard of that whole "two types of belief" thing, and don't think any of my friends would agree thats how they see the world, be they religious, atheist, or agnostic. Most of them hold the tack that if you believe in something, you believe in it. It's not a case of "well, this is my best guess, so i mayaswell be christian/bhuddist/jewish/etc even though i dont really believe in it." Though if thats how you roll then fair doos to you.

Personally, I dont "believe" anything that cant be proved. Theres a huge difference between believing the sun is hot, or that the sky is blue and believing in something that requires faith. One is something provable, the other by its very nature cant be proven or measured. When you're talking about theology, then there definatly is such a thing as lack of belief. I dont believe in anything, be it Gods, reincarnation, or anything of that nature. It's not a neutral belief, its an absence of belief.

Also, it seems rather hypocritical to say you take offense when people tell you that you have a belief.. and then go on to say that EVERYONE has a belief. Though i might be misunderstanding what you're upset about.
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Durin

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3149 on: April 16, 2010, 11:42:33 am »

It's not really an opinion that you and your friends, or me and my friends might have.  It is the use of the word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/believe

Definitions 1 and 2 describe the primary denotation.  3 describes the secondary.  Believe simply does not mean "know".  People who have a belief in God may hold that belief firmly, but they still only believe.  They do not know.

Saying, "I don't believe anything that can't be proven," just is untrue.  You believe thousands of things you can't prove.  You have to.  Life doesn't give you a chance to do otherwise.  To act only when there is firm knowledge is to become paralyzed.

It's a word game.  Not meaning any offense, I am sure you feel you are on pretty firm ground,  but the facts are what they are.  Belief does not mean know.  Therefore, if you tend to feel this way or that about something, you "believe" that by definition.  It's not a debate to be had, it is a concept to be understood.  Even if the word "believe" did not mean this, there would be another word available to express the concept.  It just so happens we already have the word "believe" to work with.
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