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Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 392143 times)

Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3060 on: March 30, 2010, 09:37:05 am »

It seems like since Atheism became a "religion" (which is ironic in itself [and incorrect]), the world no longer gives a crap. People believe that they are just animals, so they act like them, that's why the U.S's government is failing.
You'll have a hard time justifying that when it seems to be working a lot better than a number of governments from even more strictly religiously adherent governments/countries.

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Another question for Atheists, why do they call any religious people stupid because we rely on books written by people smarter then they'll ever be and then waste millions on millions of dollars on supporting completely unprovable things, and calling it the truth.
Oooh boy.

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Here's a good quote against Atheism:
"If there's a God, and you believe in him, you're good. If there isn't a God, and you don't believe in him, you're good. If there isn't a God, and you believe in him, you're good. If there is a God, and you don't believe in him, you're screwed."
That's Pascal[e?]'s Wager, that is, and I personally addressed that here, but you can find other people's more succinct assessments elsewhere.

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Another fun fact, it takes more faith to be Atheist then it does to be religious, isn't that ironic too?
It might be, if it was true.  I, don't even know how you're quantifying it.

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Yet another fact, it is more provable that Jesus was the Son of God then it is to say that George Washington was the U.S's first president. ???
Well, at least it's a change from Julius Caesar.  But even though what I believe you meant to say is "there is more proof that Jesus existed" (physical proof about the divine lineage is a little beyond anybody's call but there being extant references to one or more individuals called Jesus in various places, the relevance of which has been argued over many, many times before by more learned people than thee or me) it is still an erroneous statement even when you correct it.

And, besides, your comments boil down to "atheists are stupid".  Well, sorry that I could not be more positive about your own opinion, but this atheist has no intention to be as generalising as you are about any of the many groupings one can be found sitting around this particular table of philosophy.
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3061 on: March 30, 2010, 09:37:56 am »

This is as opposed to say Lamarks theory that children inherit physical characteristics developed during their parents life.
Darn, meant to mention that in my prior response.

Oh well, at least it didn't go wanting.
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Starver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3062 on: March 30, 2010, 10:13:10 am »

As far as the "Matrix" world idea.  The movie pretty much defined the problem in that.  Any system bent on creating an alternative reality will be met by the inquisitive folks who second guess it.
You know, if I my diverge from the subject of Atheism (at least a tad, because parallels can still be drawn) can I reiterate my long-held opinion that the third Matrix film went completely off the logical story-telling path, because the logical conclusion was that there were still more layers of matrix to be dealt with.

And, in case anyone out there has not actually watched the Trilogy and yet still intends to to so, let me encase it thus:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Which is not to say that I think we (watching the fiction of the Matrix) should consider whether there is a layer of our own from which we can exit.  But it makes you think. :)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 10:37:05 am by Starver »
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Sergius

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3063 on: March 30, 2010, 10:55:33 am »

Sergius: Sarcasm can be funny if it's intended as such. If it's intended to make a point, it's a form of weakness, of being unable to say what you really want to say.

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour", "sarcasm is a weakness", those are canned responses from people that don't know how to respond to sarcasm or just don't like when it is used on them. Not different from "oh yeah? oh yeah? I'm rubber you're glue". Congrats on showing your true side.

EDIT: Just wanted to say, looking forward for the next patronizing remark that you seem so fond of. Probably something along the lines of "I once was as naive/stupid/ignorant/caveman/unbelieving/closed minded as you, so you can improve and be like me!"
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 11:03:16 am by Sergius »
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Greatoliver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3064 on: March 30, 2010, 11:03:26 am »

Just wanted to say, looking forward for the next patronizing remark

It's patronising.
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Jreengus

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3065 on: March 30, 2010, 11:13:04 am »

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Sergius

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3066 on: March 30, 2010, 11:16:11 am »

Just wanted to say, looking forward for the next patronizing remark

It's patronising.

Yes, yes it is.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patronizing

Multiple spellings.

Yes, yes they are.

I don't think I...... ge.  IMHO.

But I mean, can you put a picture of an infinite universe in your head? Like, imagine what it looks like?

Yes, I look outside.  I see it.  It just is.
Yeah, I quoted myself... I've been playing Just Cause 2 for the past few hours and was mulling this over.  Are you asking me to fit the entirety of infinity with every little detail in my head?  Nobody is properly equipped for that.  You retain a certain amount of information.  Information that lets you get along in life.  You leave your hometown and head to the big city.  You start to forget the road names, how many lights there are between Main St. and Broad St.  That's information you don't need anymore, so you forget it.. I should say, your brain packs it away or forgets it.  It rewires those needless bits of data and allocates it to something else that's similar, but not quite the same.  I hope you aren't asking me to imagine it all at one time...

Infinity is you looking a the horizon and knowing that that horizon also has a horizon... so on and so forth.  Our current horizon is the edge of the known universe.  What's beyond that is anyone's guess, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, more stuff.  I'm personally under the hope that there's more out there than just black abyss... the Universe would be rather boring be it finite, but I'm sure the religious community would be all over it: placing humans as the sole benefactor of such a Universe.  Obviously, it must have been built for us.   ::)

(not a direct reply to you, just thoughts on the matter)
I can picture the number 99 billion in my head. I don't have to picture exactly 99 billion apples or tables or people in my head, and remember their distinct attributes. It's just a number, and it represents an amount. Any attempt to "picture" 99 billion will probably end up short (can you count them? are you sure you're imagining 99 billion? maybe its just one million "drawings" or "fingers" or whatever you regularly use to count)

What's different about imagining the possibility of 99 billion or the possibility of infinity? In neither case I have to fit a really big or infinite amount of things in my brain.
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Greatoliver

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3067 on: March 30, 2010, 11:24:38 am »

See, my comment about spelling was actually sarcastic  ;)


What's different about imagining the possibility of 99 billion or the possibility of infinity? In neither case I have to fit a really big or infinite amount of things in my brain.


Uhm, there is an infinitely large difference?

One has a limit, the other doesn't... Seriously, imagining something without a limit is not easy.
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Sergius

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3068 on: March 30, 2010, 11:49:55 am »

See, my comment about spelling was actually sarcastic  ;)


What's different about imagining the possibility of 99 billion or the possibility of infinity? In neither case I have to fit a really big or infinite amount of things in my brain.


Uhm, there is an infinitely large difference?

One has a limit, the other doesn't... Seriously, imagining something without a limit is not easy.

Can you imagine the infinitely large difference?
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Areyar

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3069 on: March 30, 2010, 12:52:47 pm »

infinite is a concept, not an existing value.
in code: error: devide by zero.
By definition an anomaly is impossible, a place where mathematics fail.
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RAM

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3070 on: March 30, 2010, 09:58:23 pm »

See, my comment about spelling was actually sarcastic  ;)


What's different about imagining the possibility of 99 billion or the possibility of infinity? In neither case I have to fit a really big or infinite amount of things in my brain.


Uhm, there is an infinitely large difference?

One has a limit, the other doesn't... Seriously, imagining something without a limit is not easy.
But it is doable, and holding an infinite amount of information in a human brain, or even acquiring that information is not currently feasible, but you can understand an apple without holding every single detail of it in you mind at once, just as it is possible to comprehend infinite entities without actually knowing every detail about every point within them...
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ikacer

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3071 on: March 30, 2010, 11:07:14 pm »

infinite is a concept, not an existing value.
in code: error: devide by zero.
By definition an anomaly is impossible, a place where mathematics fail.

Just want to point out that this is not true. Just because they can't be treated in the same way as finite numbers does not mean they are only a concept. In fact infinite numbers are fairly well understood, and have been for quite some time, since the 19th century I believe. You might want want to take a look at infinite cardinals to see.  ;)


also:
god is dead!!!11!!!OMGLULZ!@!!!!!
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chaoticag

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3072 on: March 30, 2010, 11:09:09 pm »

That's not atheism. I forget what its called though.
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G-Flex

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3073 on: March 31, 2010, 01:33:31 am »

Of course, "God is dead" was never intended to be a literal statement of fact to begin with.
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Areyar

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Re: Atheists
« Reply #3074 on: March 31, 2010, 04:31:39 am »

infinite is a concept, not an existing value.
in code: error: devide by zero.
By definition an anomaly is impossible, a place where mathematics fail.


Just want to point out that this is not true. Just because they can't be treated in the same way as finite numbers does not mean they are only a concept. In fact infinite numbers are fairly well understood, and have been for quite some time, since the 19th century I believe. You might want want to take a look at infinite cardinals to see.  ;)

Oh yeah I know, had courses on the matter. . .ages ago.
I have forgotten too much to argue specifics, but what i mean to indicate is that real numbers and ideal entities cannot be used in the same equation....unless you understand and can apply the math. There are many definitions and applications of infinite by the way, not only in cosmology/religion but also in mathematics. (I was using a simplified def in which inf-n = inf.)

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« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 04:33:23 am by Areyar »
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