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[LegoLord]

If we cannot perceive them, how do we determine how to do the math?  What good does the math even do us if it only provides us with more numbers, and not any sort of image to help us understand them?

[MrWiggles]

If we cannot perceive them, how do we determine how to do the math?  What good does the math even do us if it only provides us with more numbers, and not any sort of image to help us understand them?

The math is another tool in which science uses to direct its effort. Alone it does nothing. But with everything else, it gives us direction to look. And the looking part will prove the math holds up empirically.

[Sordid]

Bad Sorid. No cookie for you.

The fact that it can be made conceivable, doesn't mean it exist. This is why math doesn't work alone. Its a great tool, but alone proves nothing. As it stands, extra spatial dimensions exist on as mathematical proofs that hold up well to other mathematicians.

We will need something empirical eventually.

That's why I said the universe might consist of eleven dimensions, not that it does. Even though it would be insanely cool.

If we cannot perceive them, how do we determine how to do the math?  What good does the math even do us if it only provides us with more numbers, and not any sort of image to help us understand them?

We can't perceive them, our instruments can. Without instruments to help you make measurements you couldn't even make a vertical line, let alone learn anything about how the universe works.

[Idiom]

The logic they followed about flying at that time went like this:  What do birds have that allows them to fly?  We're not sure.  What do they have we don't?  Answer: wings, feathers, slightly pointed shape.  Maybe a suit like that will let us fly?

And when the first try didn't work, they started trying to make variations on it.

Almost. My point was is the idea of flying was ridiculed when really it was the explanation and the approach that was ridiculous. Rather than reject the idea of a greater power because the approaches to it are ridiculous, I instead wonder how it really would work and try to come up with my own more reasonable approach.

We will need something empirical eventually.

We have machines to propel us along 3 dimensions. We just need to figure out how to move along the other dimensions and then when what we see within our direct perception should change as we move into another frame of space.

[Sordid]

We have machines to propel us along 3 dimensions. We just need to figure out how to move along the other dimensions and then when what we see within our direct perception should change as we move into another frame of space.

Again, dimensions only work that way on TV...

[Ampersand]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercube Here's a four dimensional object for you.

Note it's lack of omnipotence.

[Sordid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercube Here's a four dimensional object for you.

Note it's lack of omnipotence.

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPERCUBE!

[LegoLord]

It looks more like a 2D mosaic pattern.

[Idiom]

Again, dimensions only work that way on TV...

We know there are more axises of movement. Why can't we shift across the others?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercube Here's a four dimensional object for you.

Note it's lack of omnipotence.

Note it's lack of intelligence to do anything. That cube can could move unlike any 3d object in ways we can only conceive mathematically.

It looks more like a 2D mosaic pattern.

Exactly. We can't properly perceive it.

[Sordid]

We know there are more axises of movement. Why can't we shift across the others?

Well we don't know that, it's only a hypothesis. The idea is that because they're curled up into themselves and so only manifest at extremely small scales. Kinda like when you're looking at a piece of strung wire from far away, it appears to be only a straight line, a single dimension. But for an ant it's a three dimensional object that it can crawl on and around.

It looks more like a 2D mosaic pattern.

That's because it's a projection into two dimensional space. Best explanation I've heard so far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KT4M7kiSw

[LegoLord]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercube Here's a four dimensional object for you.

Note it's lack of omnipotence.

Note it's lack of intelligence to do anything. That cube can could move unlike any 3d object in ways we can only conceive mathematically.

It looks more like a 2D mosaic pattern.

Exactly. We can't properly perceive it.
[/quote]
There's that too.  Why would an inanimate cube be the body of a omnipotent being?  2D objects are projected to us in 3D, we just see them as "flat."  That doesn't make them capable of doing what 3D objects can.

If there are more dimensional planes, then we are probably moving along them.  We just can't fully perceive this process, and therefore have to sit by and let it happen, until someone gets lucky and finds the thing that will allow us to do so.

[Idiom]

That's because it's a projection into two dimensional space.

Because we see in 2d, and only think in 3d.

Well we don't know that, it's only a hypothesis. The idea is that because they're curled up into themselves and so only manifest at extremely small scales. Kinda like when you're looking at a piece of strung wire from far away, it appears to be only a straight line, a single dimension. But for an ant it's a three dimensional object that it can crawl on and around.

Ant and the wire crawling along it... has every seen that science video? Anyway, taking advantage of these 4D pockets would be like taking advantage of a wormhole. You could use them to bypass anything along the first 3 dimensions. We can't do it yet, but the wormhole thing we're already getting towards.

There's that too.  Why would an inanimate cube be the body of a omnipotent being?  2D objects are projected to us in 3D, we just see them as "flat."  That doesn't make them capable of doing what 3D objects can.

If there are more dimensional planes, then we are probably moving along them.  We just can't fully perceive this process, and therefore have to sit by and let it happen, until someone gets lucky and finds the thing that will allow us to do so.

We are stuck moving linearly because we lack the locomotion. We probably exist along more dimensions than we see. If we did create a means we could bypass all conventional physics and be gods. *cough cough* Which may have already been done.*cough cough*

[Sordid]

Ant and the wire crawling along it... has every seen that science video?

Yeah, I saw that in some documentary. I don't remember the name, though, otherwise I'd post a youtube link since it explains the idea better than I can.

[Ampersand]

Fabric of the Cosmos, or The Elegant Universe. Brian Greene on PBS. Look it up.

[Sordid]

Can't say those names ring any bells, but I'll look into it.